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Some Thoughts on Dave Nonis

BeLeafer

BeLeafer

Well-known member
Now that I got my Nonis rant off my chest the other day, I'm wondering if the current arrangement isn't workable for the next several years while Hunter/Dubas cut their NHL teeth?

It seems so long as Dave isn't in charge of strategic planning and using tools to help him evaluate the teams needs, he does okay. I was pleased that he didn't bite on any shit deals today. He also negotiated a good number of favourable deals.

To review ...

Out: Clarkson, Franson, Santorelli, Winnik, Jokinen, Holzer

In: 1st, 2nd, 2X4th, 5th, 6th (which could become a 4th), Leipsic, Erixon, plus some expiring contracts (Lindstrom, Sill, Brewer)

These moves effectively fix all his previous blunders. Let's call it even, if two years behind the curve.

He now has the opportunity to lay the foundation for a good and proper rebuild by trading some of the more valuable assets in Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, Lupul and JVR.

If strategic direction, organizational building and contract decisions are no longer his to make, what's the harm in keeping him around? He's very limited in the damage he could do and is adept at making trades. Keeping him around would give the Leafs a chance to develop their own GM internally.
 
We know that Nonis made quite a number of errors but we are not certain he fixed them or if another member of mgmt fixed them.

I don't see him as our longterm solution as GM and therefore i would prefer someone else make the franchise altering trades we will likely be making in the offseason
 
Nonis makes all the calls and is the league contact. Having Dubas/Hunter do that probably doesn't get as many good results yet.
 
I think once Burke was fired, Nonis was thrust into the role - but never quite had the wheel of the franchise. I think all of the Bernier and Bolland/Clarkson deals were definitely whispered from the Prez and coach respectively.

Nonis has always been better in the assistant's role, the Gopher to Burke's Capt Stubing.
 
Nonis did okay. He didn't get anyone mad, and he did a fair deal with Nashville. And a very good deal with Clarkson.

Guess what too? Kudos to MLSE for eating 27 million dollars in Clarkson's salary, shows they are there to get a team on the ice.

You know what, we gotta show more patience than we have ever shown before and it will happen one day. I think Dubas and Shanahan and Hunter are as serious as early cancer detection. I really do. Hope I am right.

And you know what? Silly as it might seem I am going to cheer for my new guy, Ollie Jokkinen. An older guy like me. hanging on, trying to do everything as well as he can to stay in the game. He ain't Patrick Kane, but man, I am going to be cheering for him.
 
I reserve judgement on Nonis until this summer. He did, however, impress the hell out of me with that Horton / Crapson trade... amazing move.
 
blacksheep said:
I reserve judgement on Nonis until this summer. He did, however, impress the hell out of me with that Horton / Crapson trade... amazing move.
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Apparently the concept itself came out of a group brainstorming session, and the Columbus GM called us...so it fell into our laps. It's not like it was some Nonis stroke of genius that he busted his ass to get done. It was 2 other peoples idea that he received the phone call for.

This recent fellating of Nonis is starting to get a bit nauseating.
 
Nonis's input has been reduced from a one man show with his cronies backing him up, to merely an opinion in the room. And Shanny has said multiple times he wants differing opinions and perspectives, and to be challenged. So there is definitely room for Nonis here. The question is whether or not Shanny has liked how he has impacted management this year, and its really impossible for any of us to know.

They certainly seem to be working well together though. I don't have any complaints about how the team has been managed over the last year.
 
They certainly seem to be working well together though. I don't have any complaints about how the team has been managed over the last year.
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Same. Just to clarify, I'm cool with Shanny keeping Nonis around as the Gm In Name Only, he has a good reputations as a foot soldier achieving the things he's told to do. It's pretty clear though, that he's not cut out to be the brains of an operation.

We have a place in the organization for him, I'm just sick of this talk of a Nonis resurgence like everyone in the media isn't aware that Nonis doesn't actually get to make decisions anymore.

Shanny is the GM in everything but title.
 
oh **** no.

you cannot have the guy who signed the clarkson contract on board. no ****ing way.

why can't we have a quality organization where we havecthe best people in every role, actually fulfilling their job titles?
 
Sure, but Nonis isn't making those decisions anymore. Perhaps Nonis does add value in other areas though. We just don't know. We'll find out soon enough.
 
Nonis is in his comfort zone right now---he's essentially doing the same job for Shanahan & Friends that he did for Burke. He does all the day-to-day work that a GM does, while someone else is in charge of the entire operation and gives Nonis his marching orders. So, if after a year of working together, Nonis is a guy Shanahan wants to keep in his front office---fine. I don't really have a problem with it, as long as Nonis continues to have no final say on any personnel decisions.

If they do decide to replace him though, they'd probably need someone with his level of front-office experience anyways. Nonis has been a GM, assistant GM or a member of an NHL team's hockey operations for the past 17 years now, so you have to figure that he's built relationships with most of the top hockey agents and NHL front office-type people out there. Everyone else in Shanahan's front office team, Shanahan included, are in their "rookie" seasons as NHL executives, on the other hand.
 
Nonis is doing exactly what he's told, no more no less. He'll be gone in the offseason, I suspect....not only did he sign Clarkson, but when asked claimed to not care about the last few years of the deal. Is that somebody I want in charge of anything? hell ****ing no.

Shanahan will name Hunter GM.
 
I think it's more like:

GM = (Shanny + Dubas + Hunter)
Assistant / Phone Jockey / Press Conference = Nonis
 
leafman101 said:
Sure, but Nonis isn't making those decisions anymore. Perhaps Nonis does add value in other areas though. We just don't know. We'll find out soon enough.
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the best orgs have smart over qualified people in every role, giving the decision makers the best possible input.

the clarkson signing can't even be dismissed as a lack of information or a lesson to learn - it indicates a fundamental error in player evaluation, talent prioritization, and contract valuation - things that have to be eradicated completely from the organization.
 
Yeah I agree, but there is lots involved in the job aside from player evaluation. Running an organization requires a lot of work. Perhaps Nonis adds value in other areas. Maybe he doesn't. We will found out what Shanny thinks soon enough.
 
The Clarkson signing was dumb, but the way Clarkson played made it worse. I'm not dismissing Nonis for the mistake of Clarkson signing. It was a mistake, but you gotta admit at the time of the signing, many on this board, myself included, thought it was just a mistake instead of the disaster it turned out to be.

But I agree with LeafGM, Nonis is best when he is the right-hand-man of someone with a blueprint and a vision, for that's what he lacks. He's very slow to react when he is left to be the architect himself, and he lacks vision too.

Problem with him sticking around, is the Leafs cannot afford to keep his GM title and run a 3-headed monster like before with JFJ, Peddie and Quinn ... there's gotta be clearly defined roles and clear accountabilities. If Nonis would step down to be the assistant GM to say, Hunter or Dubas or whoever, I am ok with that.
 
To me Nonis' position, assistant GM, should be reserved until the next CEO is hired. Shanny then needs to recommend someone and have the new CEO sign of on it.

This way Shanny builds the team he wants while the new CEO can feel good about having had 'some' input. I believe long term that's important.
 
In the context of the Shanahan council, Nonis has been fine. He lends experience and networking to a group with neither. And they've done well so far. In this market, I think you need more than one person atop, otherwise you will lose your mind with the collective pressure of a rabid fanbase, MLSE, and the media. Also, he helps to shield Dubas from some of that pressure at the moment.

Nonis being the sole man atop was just setting him up to fail. Especially since it was by none of his own volition and MLSE just suddenly thrust it all on his shoulders. The Clarkson contract was a result of that pressure more than it was him being stupid, IMO. In every other situation, Nonis has been very deliberate and calculated. He's not ever going to be Burke, with his big splashy moves, but Nonis isn't dumb.
 
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