The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[MindzEye]

Dubas hired all the AGMs, all the scouts, all the coaches, all the nerds. The whole organization was his people.

And we are expected to believe that when Dubas and all HIS people wanted to make certain moves, that Shanny would OFTEN just come in the room, on major decisions, and say nah fuck all of you you have to make my move instead?

And that shanny wanted to extend this situation indefinitely by re-upping Dubas despite having plenty of easy reasons to fire him, and despite having to argue with the board to convince them to keep Dubas?

This is obvious nonsense.

If Shanny wanted to be GM he could just, you know, be GM. He's as qualified as anyone.

I don't doubt that moves were blocked over the years, as happens in most organizations. But until we know what moves those were, it's kind of impossible to judge whether they were reasonable decisions. But in most organizations, big moves get cleared by upper upper management.

Full autonomy is pretty much a myth until you're Masai Ujiri

 

[MindzEye]

Also if Shanny is so hand on, then why was he only hands on with all the bad moves and not hands on with all the early good moves?

Yeah, it feels way too convenient.

 

[zeke]

So if you guys are right, then the WORST CASE scenario here is that in reality, Shanahan is the GM of the leafs and Dubas has always just been a glorified assistant GM.

So our GM just fired his assistant GM.

 

[CH1]

Its silly. You're painting a situation where Shanny must be one of the more incompetent execs in sports.

Too lazy to build his own organisation, and too stupid not to interfere.

Have you worked anywhere where smart people with egos argue about important creative decisions?

Shanny has a boss too...and thus, problems of his own, and people second guessing his moves

 

[Montana]

Also if Shanny is so hand on, then why was he only hands on with all the bad moves and not hands on with all the early good moves?

…because Mirtle‘s reporting is it only began in the last year?


(it is bullshit to pin all bad moves on Shanny tho….but most aren’t being that black and white)

 

[Montana]

So if you guys are right, then the WORST CASE scenario here is that in reality, Shanahan is the GM of the leafs and Dubas has always just been a glorified assistant GM.

So our GM just fired his assistant GM.

The worst case is taking Shanny at his word, that he canned him over the presser tbh.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

he's not a robot; in a real life situation there are compromises you have to make with your collaborators and foxhole buddies (Shanny, Keefe) as you look for the winning formula

This is the key point. At the end of the day, you answer to your boss, so you need to find creative ways to bridge differences of opinion.

He tells you he likes a certain player you don’t like? Find one that you do, who has those particular qualities you’re looking for, but also checks your other boxes and show him why this other guy brings even more to the table.

He wants you to get rid of a guy you really like, make a compromise, tell him you really have faith in that guy, he’s really loved in the locker room, give him some other thing he wants in exchange for keeping the guy around. I mean, 99% of the top job is about smooth talking and it’s not just required with people outside the organization.

Anyway, are we really to believe that 500 goals Brendan Shanahan was busy advocating to get guys he probably never heard of like ZAR and Lafferty? Or brutes like the ones he used to skate around like Bogo and Babushkie?

Or was he more about the skill players like himself, and like the ones he seemed to want to protect yesterday after Dubie publicly pondered breaking them up?

 

[zeke]

I don't doubt that moves were blocked over the years, as happens in most organizations. But until we know what moves those were, it's kind of impossible to judge whether they were reasonable decisions. But in most organizations, big moves get cleared by upper upper management.

Full autonomy is pretty much a myth until you're Masai Ujiri

If shanahan was regularly overruling the majority of the organization on moves of significance, and still wanted to keep this charade going on indefinitely, then shanahan is a dangerously incompetent and dishonest moron.

 

[Montana]

Also if Shanny is so hand on, then why was he only hands on with all the bad moves and not hands on with all the early good moves?

he is the one who wanted to tank to build a skilled team, drafted Willy before Dubas was hired, and bet big on Dubas analytical approach and canned Lou/Hunter.

he also hired Lou, and Babcock.

 

[leafman101]

…because Mirtle‘s reporting is it only began in the last year?


(it is bullshit to pin all bad moves on Shanny tho….but most aren’t being that black and white)

So Foligno, Boosh, Simmonds, Clifford etc. are solely on Dubas then and I don’t really see the difference between the previous few years and this year.

 

[zeke]

The worst case is taking Shanny at his word, that he canned him over the presser tbh.

Who cares if he canned his assitant GM.

 

[MindzEye]

he also hired Lou, and Babcock.

Eh, at a time we badly needed credibility as an organization and those types of big name gets were considered to be beyond us.

 

[Montana]

So Foligno, Boosh, Simmonds, Clifford etc. are solely on Dubas then and I don’t really see the difference between the previous few years and this year.

yep. If you wanted to can Dubas coming into this season, you’ve no reason to change your opinion…have at it.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Cool, he has permission from his team before anyone asks them for it.

Like prequalifying for a mortgage with the bank.

 

[Hoss]

I still would like to hear from Tulsky though....I like what Carolina has done for so long.

 

[MindzEye]

So Foligno, Boosh, Simmonds, Clifford etc. are solely on Dubas then and I don’t really see the difference between the previous few years and this year.

Yup, the shift doesn't line up with moves made just in the last year.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

nailed it.



when you take into account how thoroughly everyone bought it in real time, it was a true masterpiece.

And they talked for hours and months but the only time the authority issue came up was two days ago?

 

[Preston]

If shanny really did have his hands on things, I don't buy that it was exclusively a this year thing yeah. No chance.

 

[MindzEye]

Or was he more about the skill players like himself, and like the ones he seemed to want to protect yesterday after Dubie publicly pondered breaking them up?

Yeah, Shanny walked that back in a hurry. Pretty much the first thing about the team he mentioned was to walk that back.

 

[hockeylover]

I think his worst moves appear in hindsight to be him getting a lot of toys for his coach or moving out players his coach didn’t play, not the bigger ones that the Pres might have his hands in, IMO.