The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[Montana]

If it's really true Shanny wants to be puppetmaster or is concerned about veto power, a bit weird there'd be so much stress on picking someone with a lot of experience next. Like shouldn't we be expecting a Tulsky type?

If we hired Tulsky, it would go a long way towards saying Dubas was in the wrong….and Shanny is continuing in the direction we were in.

If he’s hiring a Treliving or McPhee type, it’s more likely he’s going the direction of someone who believes in his philosophy more than Kyles. (Should be particularly evident when we see who the coaching hire is, too)

 

[Montana]

you'd wonder why tulsky would even move from being an assistant gm in a great front office to a for all intents and purposes being an assistant gm to a meddler like shanahan who'll destroy your reptation if you cross him.

maybe money, i guess.

I just want to clarify…. You don’t believe the reporting that Shanny blocked moves, or pushed for others that did happen?


That’s a fair statement?

 

[hockeylover]

McPhee's been pretty vocal on analytics I think.

Just seems weird Shanahan would want to hire another team's Prez and McPhee would even take the job if he's more meddly than any other Prez.

 

[MindzEye]

Mirtle has had as good a track record for being on point as anyone in Toronto in my lifetime…..

We refer to this as "damning with faint praise".

I don’t….I also don’t know the trades in question, or who said that (I’m assuming hes repeating what others said) but regardless he shouldn’t have phrased it that way.

…..but like, if Dubas wanted Ekholm, (who we were reported to be looking into)….and he was pushed more into a McCabe Lafferty direction? I can see why you’d make that editorializing fuckup. lol.

Eh, that's a major part of the problem with the whole line. It opens it up for the reader to fill in the blanks using our own sense of valuation. For all we know it was a Nylander for Tom Wilson move that Shanny blocked and the idiot source is a fucking mouth breather who feels Tom Wilson was the missing piece and Nylander is a pussy swede holding us back. We're left to assume that it was a super smart move that got blocked and not mouth breather bullshit.

The whole thing become a "choose your own adventure". It's hack journalism to include that and calls the entire piece into question imo. Should call into question your faith in Mirtle as "not strachan et all" as well tbh.

 

[zeke]

I just want to clarify…. You don’t believe the reporting that Shanny blocked moves, or pushed for others that did happen?

That’s a fair statement?

I expect there were healthy discussions and often disagreements about all potential moves.

I find it very hard to believe that he would outright block or force moves against the opinions of the rest of the organization, and absolutely do not believe that this could possibly have been a common occurrence.

 

[Montana]

a meddler like shanahan who'll destroy your reputation.

Whatever the reality is of how it all played out….it’s pretty fucked up he did what he did to Kyle’s reputation in that presser.

….even if I’m 100% wrong and every second of Shanny’s play by play was accurate, it was still fucked up to bury him in that fashion, imo. An completely unnecessary.

 

[Montana]

We refer to this as "damning with faint praise".

nah, Mirtle has been damn good over the years….they handpicked him as editor for good reason,

Eh, that's a major part of the problem with the whole line. It opens it up for the reader to fill in the blanks using our own sense of valuation.

that’s fair.

For all we know it was a Nylander for Tom Wilson move that Shanny blocked and the idiot source is a fucking mouth breather who feels Tom Wilson was the missing piece and Nylander is a pussy swede holding us back. We're left to assume that it was a super smart move that got blocked and not mouth breather bullshit.

..you can believe what you wish, but I know which of the two I’d expect to want mouth breather bullshit.

(GM & coach hires should be informative on that front)

The whole thing become a "choose your own adventure". It's hack journalism to include that and calls the entire piece into question imo. Should call into question your faith in Mirtle as "not strachan et all" as well tbh.

Eh…the people choosing their own adventure are the ones ignoring reporting that refutes their takes from Friday,

 

[Montana]

I expect there were healthy discussions and often disagreements about all potential moves.

I find it very hard to believe that he would outright block or force moves against the opinions of the rest of the organization, and absolutely do not believe that this could possibly have been a common occurrence.

agreed in so far as I think Shanny was very hands off the first few years….or that they were at least on the same page the majority of the time.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for an old head like Shanny, to have some strong opinions about what might be needed to push us over the hump as the first round failures racked up.


ultimately tho….i think the GM/coach hires will be illuminating on this front, and I’m sure we get some more reporting from Mirtle down the road that plugs some names in on these supposed blocked/pushed deals.

 

[MindzEye]

it is….Shanny said he changed his thinking after the presser.

yes, changed his thinking....then reached out to discuss with Kyle because he had questions (as any thinking human being should after Kyle's statements), received radio silence and then a demand for more money.

…that’s Shanny’s narrative, yes…..(but did he really go so far as to claim they had a handshake deal? Lol, missed that)

Nothing has come out to question Shanahan's narrative about a deal not being agreed upon in principle, and other reporting has come out about the board being okay with it after the series win against Tampa.

so says Shanny, again I’m not lapping up every detail he laid out as gospel when he pretty clearly had an agenda.

Eh, he's gone on record with his version of events. You seem to be more comfortable filling in the gaps in Mirtle's reporting with your own sensibility than you are to do anything but call shanahan a liar and a cunt.

Shanny did a 180 from wanting to sign him long term monday morning….to seeing the presser and deciding he should start looking in other directions.

Dubas emails says he wants to return (after “ghosting him”), Shanny says he’s already decided to go in another direction. He was asked if the contract ask was a deciding factor and he said no.

He even said, once he opened his mind up to thinking about other directions, by the time Dubas emailed him back, he’d basically moved on.

If Kyle's presser didn't cause you to ask questions about his willingness to return to the Leafs and whether he was a good fit here, I don't know if we're going to agree on much. You're about to sign someone to a 20 million dollar contract, you shouldn't be questioning their commitment to the job (which Kyle himself did) before you turn the contract over for their signature.

Shanahan reached out and received radio silence...that's kind of the clincher, no?

I mean, if Shanahan had not decided to go this way, offered the deal to Dubas, and Kyle continued to struggle with the emotional/family side of the job...what then?

 

[MindzEye]

nah, Mirtle has been damn good over the years….they handpicked him as editor for good reason,

Meh, hard meh. They're all TMZ with a tie.

.you can believe what you wish, but I know which of the two I’d expect to want mouth breather bullshit.

(GM & coach hires should be informative on that front)

Shanny hired Dubas.

Dubas hired Keefe.

One of those two hires is absolutely a mouth breather.

Eh…the people choosing their own adventure are the ones ignoring reporting that refutes their takes from Friday,

"reporting"

 

[MindzEye]

spezza resigns dang

Presser at 3

 

[zeke]

agreed in so far as I think Shanny was very hands off the first few years….or that they were at least on the same page the majority of the time.

I think it’s perfectly reasonable for an old head like Shanny, to have some strong opinions about what might be needed to push us over the hump as the first round failures racked up.

again, personnel changes didn't change much stylewise over the years.

and again, why on earth would shanahan just not have fired Dubas if he felt that strongly about so many major moves.

 

[Montana]

and again, why on earth would shanahan just not have fired Dubas if he felt that strongly about so many major moves.

he did fire him, after disagreeing on some major moves.….while claiming he always wanted him back, until Dubas forced his hand, over the last few days.

 

[MindzEye]

If we hired Tulsky, it would go a long way towards saying Dubas was in the wrong….and Shanny is continuing in the direction we were in.

If he’s hiring a Treliving or McPhee type, it’s more likely he’s going the direction of someone who believes in his philosophy more than Kyles. (Should be particularly evident when we see who the coaching hire is, too)

I mean, Shanny is on record with saying that Kyle was hired because Shanny loved his philosophy on hockey....then Shanny made one of the most decorated execs in the sports' history walk the plank so he could install Dubas just a few years later.

These are not two people who were philosophical adversaries.

 

[zeke]

he did fire him, after disagreeing on some major moves.….while claiming he always wanted him back, until Dubas forced his hand, over the last few days.

so you do or do not believe that Shanny both a) defended dubas to the board, and b) had a contract waiting for Dubas to sign?

 

[Montana]

These are not two people who were philosophical adversaries.

they absolutely weren’t the first few years…that’s not up for dispute.

 

[Montana]

so you do or do not believe that Shanny both a) defended dubas to the board, and b) had a contract waiting for Dubas to sign?

a) I do for the most part....but I can’t claim to have a great bead on what the board wanted and when. (Did they want to fire him last year?)

b) I honestly don’t have an opinion on the rumoured contract one way or the other, aside from not really believing Dubas had agreed to something and went back on his word. I do suspect there’s more to it than we’ve heard.

 

[MindzEye]

they absolutely weren’t the first few years…that’s not up for dispute.

I think you're reading too much into the Lou & Babcock hires.

 

[hockeylover]

Just making sure I got Shanny's timeline of events right:

- Kyle's agent lays out framework of financial compensation
- Shanny gets approved by board, presents Dubas contract
- Dubas says k cool gotta run it by my fam
- Shanny says maybe don't give a presser yet until you've decided
- Shanny says he's caught off guard by the extent of Dubas' uncertainty, wonders if he needs a backup plan
- reaches out to Dubas again
- Dubas emails new financial terms that were, according to Shanny, much different
- Shanny decides to go in another direction

That's basically the story, right?

 

[MindzEye]

Just making sure I got Shanny's timeline of events right:

- Kyle's agent lays out framework of financial compensation
- Shanny gets approved by board, presents Dubas contract
- Dubas says k cool gotta run it by my fam
- Shanny says maybe don't give a presser yet until you've decided
- Shanny says he's caught off guard by the extent of Dubas' uncertainty, wonders if he needs a backup plan
- reaches out to Dubas again
- Dubas emails new financial terms that were, according to Shanny, much different
- Shanny decides to go in another direction

That's basically the story, right?

You forgot the part where Shanahan threw a puppy at the TV when Kyle dared show human emotion in public, and the plot to take control of all the power for himself.

Other than that though, spot on.