The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[Artnes]

That relationship is unrepairable after the last week

 

[leafman101]

Pitt would be a mistake. I doubt they’d even offer him as much money as the Leafs did.

but it would be real interesting to see how he builds the depth there. Would answer every question.

 

[zeke]

You guys are stuck arguing extremes between Shanny was a micro manager and Shanny was a heavenly and 100% sympatico boss — so no different than Mirtle’s hyperbolic interpretation

I view it as way more nuanced — relationships evolve over time and things get frayed when the same disappointments keep repeating.

I’m on “Team Shanahan had a say” not in working the phones or picking out players from around the league but in stating general things like “it’d be nice to have a third pairing D that plays like xxxxx” or “is there a way we can get a first rounder back? Our scouts are drooling at some of those prospects that will be available down there” .

Shanahan might have thought they had a good working relationship despite the occasional disputes (par for the course) and was taken aback when Dubas expressed doubt about continuing in the status quo

Again, the claim made in the "reporting" was that shanny literally both BLOCKED and FORCED multiple key moves over multiple years, clearly much more than just a voice at the table.

 

[MindzEye]

You guys are stuck arguing extremes between Shanny was a micro manager and Shanny was a heavenly and 100% sympatico boss — so no different than Mirtle’s hyperbolic interpretation

I view it as way more nuanced — relationships evolve over time and things get frayed when the same disappointments keep repeating.

I’m on “Team Shanahan had a say” not in working the phones or picking out players from around the league but in stating general things like “it’d be nice to have a third pairing D that plays like xxxxx” or “is there a way we can get a first rounder back? Our scouts are drooling at some of those prospects that will be available down there” .

Shanahan might have thought they had a good working relationship despite the occasional disputes (par for the course) and was taken aback when Dubas expressed doubt about continuing in the status quo

I don't think this is entirely the case. I think most of us realize that collaboration is the norm in sports management.

Its part of where I see the pro dubas argument as untenable in reality. A certain level of collaboration with the uppers is a requirement of the job.

 

[Montana]

And yeah, anyone defending the toronto media needs to prepare themselves to look really silly in the near future.

TMZ with ties and serious faces

calm down Donald.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

You guys are stuck arguing extremes between Shanny was a micro manager and Shanny was a heavenly and 100% sympatico boss — so no different than Mirtle’s hyperbolic interpretation

I view it as way more nuanced — relationships evolve over time and things get frayed when the same disappointments keep repeating.

I’m on “Team Shanahan had a say” not in working the phones or picking out players from around the league but in stating general things like “it’d be nice to have a third pairing D that plays like xxxxx” or “is there a way we can get a first rounder back? Our scouts are drooling at some of those prospects that will be available down there” .

Shanahan might have thought they had a good working relationship despite the occasional disputes (par for the course) and was taken aback when Dubas expressed doubt about continuing in the status quo

Bad news for Kyle then, because he’ll always have a boss with opinions, unless he makes enough coin to buy his own team.

And he could do worse than a former cup winner who scored over 500 goals himself.

 

[Montana]

Again, the claim made in the "reporting" was that shanny literally both BLOCKED and FORCED multiple key moves over multiple years, clearly much more than just a voice at the table.

try again…you were so so close this time.

 

[MindzEye]

calm down Donald.

Grab your ankles and prepare yourself.

The journalism in Toronto sports media is a hell of a hill to die on.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Pitt would be a mistake. I doubt they’d even offer him as much money as the Leafs did.

but it would be real interesting to see how he builds the depth there. Would answer every question.

No chance he finds any team that will pay him the money on the offer he rejected, not to mention what he wanted in his counteroffer.

 

[CH1]

Again, the claim made in the "reporting" was that shanny literally both BLOCKED and FORCED multiple key moves over multiple years, clearly much more than just a voice at the table.

People love their good vs evil stories. Don’t let these stories lower your IQ.

 

[Artnes]

And I call bs on people turning down that position because of a heated presser.

How many GMs walk into a position with a roster like this? Most GMs are hired after a tank season and have to build from the ground up. This house is built

 

[zeke]

try again…you were so so close this time.

Yes we know you don't want to believe that moves at "key stages of the season" that would have apparently certainly gotten them "deeper in the playoffs" are in fact significant moves.

 

[CH1]

Bad news for Kyle then, because he’ll always have a boss with opinions, unless he makes enough coin to buy his own team.

And he could do worse than a former cup winner who scored over 500 goals himself.

Some GMs, like movie directors, get final cut.

 

[hockeylover]

You guys are stuck arguing extremes between Shanny was a micro manager and Shanny was a heavenly and 100% sympatico boss — so no different than Mirtle’s hyperbolic interpretation

I view it as way more nuanced — relationships evolve over time and things get frayed when the same disappointments keep repeating.

I’m on “Team Shanahan had a say” not in working the phones or picking out players from around the league but in stating general things like “it’d be nice to have a third pairing D that plays like xxxxx” or “is there a way we can get a first rounder back? Our scouts are drooling at some of those prospects that will be available down there” .

Shanahan might have thought they had a good working relationship despite the occasional disputes (par for the course) and was taken aback when Dubas expressed doubt about continuing in the status quo

I completely am with you that this description is closer to the reality of the situation because how would they even get to the point where they thought a deal was close before the presser otherwise.

but in fairness, the only reason we started discussing “the extreme” is because Mirtle painted a more extreme picture in his article.

 

[Montana]

Its part of where I see the pro dubas argument as untenable in reality. A certain level of collaboration with the uppers is a requirement of the job.

except that’s the foundation the pro-Dubas argument is built on….they had a good collaborative relationship for years, including his first 3+ years as GM….and as reporting laid out earlier this year, and now again after the axing, they began to but heads much more in recent years.

which as CH accurately said, is to be expected when you get the string of outcomes we were having….especially if a Dubas deal was blocked at a key moment, or guys Dubas really didn’t want to add were pushed for to round out the roster.

 

[Montana]

I completely am with you that this description is closer to the reality of the situation because how would they even get to the point where they thought a deal was close before the presser otherwise.

but in fairness, the only reason we started discussing “the extreme” is because Mirtle painted a more extreme picture in his article.

this isn’t quite accurate tho….many people were saying it was insane to believe Shanny was blocking/pushing anything on Friday when the idea was proposed. That was the original extreme, that has now been backed off some.

Mirtle definitelt wasted a lot of the boards time, by throwing in that editorialization tho…

 

[zeke]

People love their good vs evil stories. Don’t let these stories lower your IQ.

The funny thing is you don't even realize you're agreeing with us, and are yourself dismissing that "reporting" as bunk.

We all agree that Shanny obviously would have a voice at the table. The "reporting" suggested something much, much more than that.

 

[hockeylover]

this isn’t quite accurate tho….many people were saying it was insane to believe Shanny was blocking/pushing anything on Friday when the idea was proposed. That was the original extreme, that has now been backed off some.

The article says he dictated moves to Kyle that he didn’t want to make, that’s extreme.

 

[leafman101]

So basically if you want to believe Elliotte, ROR and others said this team isn’t good enough to win at their exit interviews.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Some GMs, like movie directors, get final cut.

Not when they’re 30-something and have made the second round once.

He had a cush gig here and a big money offer for several more years, and I doubt he’s going to land anywhere where they just hand him the keys to the castle.