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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

I don't have access to the article but a picture's worth 1,000 words with that pouty Dubie shot.

He sucks. I think he does a lot of things well, and is currently in a period of intense suckage because of his shitty decisions over a relatively short time, but this whole thing came out of an arrogance that sent him off the rails. He frankly just didn't know what he was doing anymore - Engvall and Sandin trades will forever be testament to that on the job side, and on the personal side he fucked up his own contract situation so badly, that I have zero trust in him to do anything anymore. Doubtless that Shanny came to the same conclusion.
 
The article is meh… keep in mind that the only folks quoted are Doob loyalists still dealing with this emotionally and thinking that talking it through will help with the process
 
He was probably a great guy to work for but at the end of the day he played the wrong hand and it bit him in the ass.

I dont recall see so much drama around a GM being fired before. Surprised they don't have a state funeral set up outside Scotiabank
 
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Media is doing its thing, knowing that they're getting nothing out of Shanny no matter what they do, so they're cozying up to Kyle since they know he'll land elsewhere, and then elsewhere again and again, and will be a source of info for them.

But yeah, he died young and it's tragic. He had a long, full life ahead of him.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I don't have access to the article but a picture's worth 1,000 words with that pouty Dubie shot.

He sucks. I think he does a lot of things well, and is currently in a period of intense suckage because of his shitty decisions over a relatively short time, but this whole thing came out of an arrogance that sent him off the rails. He frankly just didn't know what he was doing anymore - Engvall and Sandin trades will forever be testament to that on the job side, and on the personal side he fucked up his own contract situation so badly, that I have zero trust in him to do anything anymore. Doubtless that Shanny came to the same conclusion.
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No doubt that when Dubas’s tenure is looked back on decades from now, the thing that’ll stand out to hockey historians more than anything is his decision to trade our giraffe-necked Swedish beefcake.

The name Pierre Engvall will haunt Dubas’s dreams for all eternity.
 
LeafGm said:
No doubt that when Dubas’s tenure is looked back on decades from now, the thing that’ll stand out to hockey historians more than anything is his decision to trade our giraffe-necked Swedish beefcake.

The name Pierre Engvall will haunt Dubas’s dreams for all eternity.
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It will haunt mine, that's for sure.

And if you could view the alternate reality where he and Sandman stayed, you might be seeing the Leafs gearing up for the finals now. Could've use those guys' skating, passing, possession, defensive play, etc. May not seem like a lot on the individual level, but look at us against TB pre-Knies and after. One good player in and one shit player out makes a big difference. And Dubie shipped off two good players for nothing, and two shit players played for them instead.
 
leafman101 said:
Sandin is going to haunt us like Steen, Danphousse, Kadri.

think we’ll regret losing those two more than losing Dubas.
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Think? He's only a 23 year old dman making $1.4M and put up 15 points in 19 games after leaving. Who needs him.

But I don't recall this many passengers on the Sandin train before they traded him though. It was always pretty quiet in there. All I'd hear from outside the window was that he was a bad skater, bad defensively, and didn't project to be much of anything.
 
Preston said:
That article is batshit insane
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It's not a good look for things. For anything. It portrays a bunch of people that don't understand that the objective here is to win the Stanley Cup. who were obviously entirely too comfortable and content given the team's results.

maybe these guys all forgot they were working in pro sports??

there needs to be a culture reset in Toronto.

is that even possible with Shanahan here? guess we'll see.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Think? He's only a 23 year old dman making $1.4M and put up 15 points in 19 games after leaving. Who needs him.

But I don't recall this many passengers on the Sandin train before they traded him though. It was always pretty quiet in there. All I'd hear from outside the window was that he was a bad skater, bad defensively, and didn't project to be much of anything.
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well no one said you were a good listener.
 
Many joke about it but deciding to move on from Pierre Engvall in favor of so much other garbage was a sign that Kyle has completely lost it for me. It wasn't why they lost but it was a sign of complete abandonment from the puck possession/speed game that Kyle envisioned for his roster when he initially took on the job. Somewhere along the line the plan changed and the Engvall trade was one of many symbols of Kyle's evolution.
 
Preston said:
Many joke about it but deciding to move on from Pierre Engvall in favor of so much other garbage was a sign that Kyle has completely lost it for me. It wasn't why they lost but it was a sign of complete abandonment from the puck possession/speed game that Kyle envisioned for his roster when he initially took on the job. Somewhere along the line the plan changed and the Engvall trade was one of many symbols of Kyle's evolution.
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Yup, I think you and I were the only ones back then that freaked over those trades, at least the Engvall one for sure. I recall you waiting for me to see it while in London and correctly predicting my imminent rage over the moves.

It was so dumb, so fucking dumb that there was no possible explanation for it. And to have TWO of those in separate deals on the same night, jesus, that was bad.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Yup, I think you and I were the only ones back then that freaked over those trades, at least the Engvall one for sure. I recall you waiting for me to see it while in London and correctly predicting my imminent rage over the moves.

It was so dumb, so fucking dumb that there was no possible explanation for it. And to have TWO of those in separate deals on the same night, jesus, that was bad.
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The Raz trade will obviously hurt them waaaay more but the Engvall trade stuck out for me even more. You could sorta justify Raz being the odd man out.. They preferred McCabe at his AAV the next 2 years, he'd be on the 3rd pair and they can flip the 1st they got for him for a foward (lol). But the Engvall one was.. Out of all of their depth pieces, they trade the best possession player? So they can insert guys like ZAR, Lafferty, Kerf at 3.5m, Jarn? From a progressive analytics-based approach that we always assumed Kyle had, it made 0 sense. It hurt me and I "overreacted" because of what it meant.. Kyle was officially a boomer "hockey man."
 
Preston said:
The Raz trade will obviously hurt them waaaay more but the Engvall trade stuck out for me even more. You could sorta justify Raz being the odd man out.. They preferred McCabe at his AAV the next 2 years, he'd be on the 3rd pair and they can flip the 1st they got for him for a foward (lol). But the Engvall one was.. Out of all of their depth pieces, they trade the best possession player? So they can insert guys like ZAR, Lafferty, Kerf at 3.5m, Jarn? From a progressive analytics-based approach that we always assumed Kyle had, it made 0 sense. It hurt me and I "overreacted" because of what it meant.. Kyle was officially a boomer "hockey man."
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There was no overreaction. Engvall with Mikky was a force to be reckoned with. I think Engvall with ROR on the third line would've been MUCH MUCH more effective depth for us in those series. Huge loss.

And there still wasn't any sense whatsoever in dumping Sandin. They added expiring UFA Gus, who played fucking squat and was a healthy scratch 90% of the time instead of just holding onto Steen and his upcoming $1.4m and RFA status after? Like, has there ever been anything more fucking brain damaged than that?
 
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