The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[JackBurton]

Burke didn't like Dubas when he worked in the media. i assume Burke is back in the media soon and will really roast him worse if he takes the Pens job.

 

[Montana]

if the team actually has a process in place where every individual transaction (none of which has any impact on the team's bottom line whatsoever) requires a 3 day approval process by a bunch of businessmen then the team is fucked beyond imagination.

Friendman reported the very next day after Dubas was fired that what he asked for in his counter offer, was a “streamlining” of the process. Not to push Shanny out, or skip him, but to streamline the process so it was faster.

…and the “reporting” if we buy it from this Jonas 2 fella, is that Shanny was less involved with day to day hockey operations this season, so part of the delay in getting approval was Dubas getting a deal close, having to spend time bringing Shanny up to speed on every aspect of the deal, so that he could then take it to the board and sell it to them.


I know everyone wants to just dismiss virtually everything out of hand…but if that was the case, it fits with Dubas wanting to speed up the process, it costing us a big name D, and honestly prob played a role in why Shanny changed his mind so easily if it questioned his part in it at all.

…or its all lies from Dubas‘ buddies just to protect him…and everyone’s theories here that contradict any reporting, is the real truth.

 

[leafman101]

I mean the only one to report that 3 day, costing a dman thing was some random self-proclaimed "the weirdo watcher", alt-presto tweeter.

If you want to treat that as a reliable source thats on you.

 

[Montana]

I doubt anything further has trickled out about Treliving other than the very initial stuff, which is the only stuff they have to go on....and I'm pretty sure they're all just bouncing this one piece of info around and that's making them believe it's a stronger piece of info than it actually it.

that doesn't mean that Trelving won't be the next gm of course.

On the new GM rumblings I want to embrass the FI philosophy of not believing any reporting because i don’t like it…..pretty weird that Frank & Fried both have mentioned Treliving, Bergeron, Chiarelli, and Botterill….and a possible interview already having taken place, that they know nothing else about?

praying they’re all clueless as you lads say, and Tulsky is the call.

 

[Montana]

I mean the only one to report that 3 day, costing a dman thing was some random self-proclaimed "the weirdo watcher", alt-presto tweeter.

literally said….…


”and the “reporting” if we buy it from this Jonas 2 fella”

If you want to treat that as a reliable source thats on you.

I didn’t even know of him, until the board was quoting him as credible, with the new contract $$ demands Dubas purportedly had.

 

[Preston]

On the new GM rumblings I want to embrass the FI philosophy of not believing any reporting because i don’t like it…..pretty weird that Frank & Fried both have mentioned Treliving, Bergeron, Chiarelli, and Botterill….and a possible interview already having taken place, that they know nothing else about?

praying they’re all clueless as you lads say, and Tulsky is the call.

I do agree with this. Yes, things are tight with Shanny and they aren't letting on much... But the denials on here that they spoke to Chia, Treliving, etc. have gotten a bit out of hand. They are speaking to them. Maybe just maybe they are having interviews with some more under the radar picks who hold calculators too, but that's pure speculation. We know what we know... And based on the in-person interview that we know happened, Treliving is the obvious favorite right now to land the job.

 

[hockeylover]

I don't really think they're patently untrue - I just think the phrasing being used around *some* of them is pretty... weak/hedging.

I believe there's been an interview with Treliving and a zoom interview with Chiarelli, because that's the firmest language we've heard thus far. Think whoever Frank/Fried's source is seems to be on the outside of the process getting little bits.

 

[Red Line]

Friendman reported the very next day after Dubas was fired that what he asked for in his counter offer, was a “streamlining” of the process. Not to push Shanny out, or skip him, but to streamline the process so it was faster.

…and the “reporting” if we buy it from this Jonas 2 fella, is that Shanny was less involved with day to day hockey operations this season, so part of the delay in getting approval was Dubas getting a deal close, having to spend time bringing Shanny up to speed on every aspect of the deal, so that he could then take it to the board and sell it to them.


I know everyone wants to just dismiss virtually everything out of hand…but if that was the case, it fits with Dubas wanting to speed up the process, it costing us a big name D, and honestly prob played a role in why Shanny changed his mind so easily if it questioned his part in it at all.

…or its all lies from Dubas‘ buddies just to protect him…and everyone’s theories here that contradict any reporting, is the real truth.

yup he didn't want Shanny's job or to cut him out of the decision making process, he just wanted to streamline the decision making process so Shanny isn't involved, lol

I'm just wondering how far someone has to ram their head up Dubies ass to actually believe this shit after not hearing anything for years and also based on the number of deals that have been done.

Also if Dubas was even half the genius he and followers believe he is and was thinking of moving a core piece that he needed approval to move why wouldn't he just go through Shanny to the board and get approval before he even started looking for a potential trade partner?

 

[Montana]

I don't really think they're patently untrue - I just think the phrasing being used around *some* of them is pretty... weak/hedging.

I believe there's been an interview with Treliving and a zoom interview with Chiarelli, because that's the firmest language we've heard thus far. Think whoever Frank/Fried's source is seems to be on the outside of the process getting little bits.

Yeah that’s one thing that sucks about people posting what someone said on a pod, tv or radio….without the clip itself, you have to trust that the twitter user is deciphering between opinion, speculation and reporting.

The manner in which things are discussed by even the more credible journo’s has to be amplified….because it’s drastically different than if they’re reporting it as fact, from multiple sources.

As you said it….”firm language” is the requisite media literacy we need, for discussing anything as factual.

 

[LeafGm]

It isn’t so much “ignoring the reporting I don’t like”. It’s that very few of these guys were definitively reporting that they know these interviews have taken place based on information from their own sources.

It’s either very vague, weasely language dressed up as concrete information, or people who are just clearly just feeding off what those other reporters are saying.

Anyway, Friedman’s most recent reporting on them giving Treliving an interview seems pretty definite, so I’m willing to accept that as a fact. Though my fingers are crossed that it was just a perfunctory interview.

As for Seravalli, Dreger & Lebrun, whether I like what they’re reporting or not, I don’t consider them reliable sources of information.

 

[Montana]

yup he didn't want Shanny's job or to cut him out of the decision making process, he just wanted to streamline the decision making process so Shanny isn't involved, lol

that’s your speculation.….worth literally nothing.

I'm just wondering how far someone has to ram their head up Dubies ass to actually believe this shit after not hearing anything for years and also based on the number of deals that have been done.

….except we knew earlier this year there was some disfunction. So maybe you had your head up your own ass, and couldn’t hear it?

Also if Dubas was even half the genius he and followers believe he is and was thinking of moving a core piece that he needed approval to move why wouldn't he just go through Shanny to the board and get approval before he even started looking for a potential trade partner?

1) Your speculation.

2) you’re right he’s an idiot for not going to the board with a trade….that hasn’t even been negotiated yet with the other team. fuck you’re smart.

 

[Volcanologist]

There's only 2 facts...Shanahan said they'd like somebody with experience and Brad Treliving was let go by the Flames.

the media has taken those two facts and tried to make a stew out of them a la Carl Weathers. they've taken them home and thrown them in a pot with some Bergevin, a dash of Chiarelli and some chopped Botteril

 

[Montana]

It isn’t so much “ignoring the reporting I don’t like”.

I mean, there absolutely is that occurring here in general, but..

It’s that very few of these guys were definitively reporting that they know these interviews have taken place based on information from their own sources.

yeah, in this instance I was jokingly saying I want to operate that way, because I hate the names being speculated,

It’s either very vague, weasely language dressed up as concrete information, or people who are just clearly just feeding off what those other reporters are saying.

totally agree….was particularly weird sounding when Frank/Fried both hinted at an interview already haven taken place possibly, without knowing who. (I guess now we know it was the living tree?)

Anyway, Friedman’s most recent reporting on them giving Treliving an interview seems pretty definite, so I’m willing to accept that as a fact. Though my fingers are crossed that it was just a perfunctory interview.

As for Seravalli, Dreger & Lebrun, whether I like what they’re reporting or not, I don’t consider them reliable sources of information.

100% agree.

 

[leafman101]

They haven't broken a story about the Leafs in years.

Before the deadline Friedman posted a list of 7-10 dmen the Leafs were in on and none of them were McCabe.

The value of their information is based on prior experience and nothing else.

If it was Bobby Mac it would likely be treated much differently.

BTW, both Friedman and Johnston have said they can't get any information on this process and are just guessing, other than Treliving.

 

[Montana]

There's only 2 facts...Shanahan said they'd like somebody with experience

Just me personally, I found everyone made a bit too much out of this anyway…particularly that it had to mean a veteran GM.


..mind you, the names rumoured do imply that was the intent when he said that. But like, it would be insane to dismiss Tulsky imo, as not experienced enough.

 

[hockeylover]

Friendman reported the very next day after Dubas was fired that what he asked for in his counter offer, was a “streamlining” of the process. Not to push Shanny out, or skip him, but to streamline the process so it was faster.

…and the “reporting” if we buy it from this Jonas 2 fella, is that Shanny was less involved with day to day hockey operations this season, so part of the delay in getting approval was Dubas getting a deal close, having to spend time bringing Shanny up to speed on every aspect of the deal, so that he could then take it to the board and sell it to them.


I know everyone wants to just dismiss virtually everything out of hand…but if that was the case, it fits with Dubas wanting to speed up the process, it costing us a big name D, and honestly prob played a role in why Shanny changed his mind so easily if it questioned his part in it at all.

…or its all lies from Dubas‘ buddies just to protect him…and everyone’s theories here that contradict any reporting, is the real truth.

Does Burke's description of his experience with the board give you pause at all that there might be some information we're missing here?

How'd we get from "I meet with the board once a year and they give me some thoughts" to a 3 day process to get individual deadline deals through?

 

[Red Line]

that’s your speculation.….worth literally nothing.


….except we knew earlier this year there was some disfunction. So maybe you had your head up your own ass, and couldn’t hear it?


1) Your speculation.

2) you’re right he’s an idiot for not going to the board with a trade….that hasn’t even been negotiated yet with the other team. fuck you’re smart.

You can't even keep your own bs straight but maybe i'm wrong so explain to me what you meant when you said Dubas didn't want to cut Shanny out but just wanted to streamline the decision making process?

....except the rumor was a rift between Shanny and Dubas and not some disfunction about the decision making process, i guess you couldn't hear it with being neck deep in Dubas' ass.

I said he should get approval to be able trade a core piece and then explore a deal since it's never been reported that Rogers and Bell ever get involved in actually negotiations about the pieces we get back.

but i get it, you love Dubas and never thought he'd ever get fired so now you're venting your anger at Shanny and the Board even if it means you have to suspend any semblance of rational thought

Do yourself a favor and pop on to our page at Cap Friendly and take a good hard look how little he's added to this team going forward and how much future draft capital he's burned through. it'll greatly help ease your pain at thought of the Leafs without Dubas as GM.

 

[Montana]

They haven't broken a story about the Leafs in years.

Before the deadline Friedman posted a list of 7-10 dmen the Leafs were in on and none of them were McCabe.

The value of their information is based on prior experience and nothing else.

If it was Bobby Mac it would likely be treated much differently.

BTW, both Friedman and Johnston have said they can't get any information on this process and are just guessing, other than Treliving.

Although “guessing” about Treliving, including Mirtle who said he had heard rumblings of his name being tied to use during the season…..seem to have been onto something, since he was our first interview?

Reporters learning about what happened after the fact, be it a trade, a dismissal, etc is often some of the most accurate reporting they do. It’s much different than trying to get information on what a team wants to do….as we clearly like to keep that as hush hush as possible, until it’s done. So you’re relying on agents or leaks from the other side in those instances.

Fried also reported the day after the firing, about the “streamlining” request….so imo the idea theyre completely clueless is silly. You just have to use your nogging a bit to separate the opinions from the reporting.

….and in fairness to them, I’m sure they’d love to just report and not have to speculate/share opinions, but when youre on TV nonstop, doing multiple radio hits daily, have to feed twitter to maintain engagement etc.….you’re obviously in a situation where you have to make the most content out of the information you do have….as well as fill segments with just opinion, and speculation you get from other GMs/agents. That’s all par for the course.

….and again it’s where using strong media literacy comes in. All these discussions just come down to that.

 

[LeafGm]

Does Burke's description of his experience with the board give you pause at all that there might be some information we're missing here?

How'd we get from "I meet with the board once a year and they give me some thoughts" to a 3 day process to get individual deadline deals through?

To be fair, Burke did add the qualifier that his comments were about his dealings with a different CEO (Richard Peddie) and a different board.

In his interview, the only thing he had to say about dealing with the board after the switch to a new CEO and the current ownership group is “things got more complicated.”

 

[Montana]

Does Burke's description of his experience with the board give you pause at all that there might be some information we're missing here?

Burke was President himself, so that alone likely changes quite a bit….I’ve also no clue how the changes from the aboard under Burke, to now may impact things.

…I may be wrong, but I can absolutely picture Rogers/Bell wanting to be part of the process more than the pension fund did. (Who I think basically went with what Tanenbaum wanted….but I could be way off, that was 15 years ago now).

How'd we get from "I meet with the board once a year and they give me some thoughts" to a 3 day process to get individual deadline deals through?

Again, this is us buying into the “reporting”….but if we want to riff on it being accurate, Shanny stepping away from daily hockey operations, added to it…and presumably the change in the board.

…and I think it was just big moves, not literally every deadline move.