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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

leafman101 said:
Just thinking a bit about breaking up the core 4. If you look at the history of this market we've been watching this terrible version of a movie on replay over and over again. "you can't win with...".

For 50 years good players have been run our of town because "they can't win" only to go on and win. Almost immediately. "Kadri hurts you in the playoffs, you can't win with him..." Cup. "You can't win with Kessel." Cup. "Kaberle is too soft, you can't win with him" Cup. Murphy. Cups. Damphousse. Cup. McDonald. Cup.

Toronto's experience with that evaluation is pure shit. Its a completely subjective, worthless criteria to evaluate players. The media and fans saying "you should trade player x, you can't win with them" makes me pretty confident that we should not trade player X and we can win with them.

Everyone points to the Tkachuk trade, but the reality is in this situation we would be the team trading the Tkachuk.

its not to say that you can't trade those players and make your team better. And if you can do that great. But its much easier to trade those players and make the other team significantly better, your team significantly worse, and watch them win a cup on TV somewhere else.
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the only way trading one of the young guys makes any sense is if we get an equally good or better young talent in return. that's the only way.

of course when we're talking about this kind of stuff then we know it's not really a core-4 - Tavares is not part of that same equation at all.
 
zeke said:
yeah...kind of an even balance sheet there.

but really, the one best move he made is not chaining us to any anchor contracts. then again, given we're going to have to pay to get rid of a goalie the second year in a row, he doesn't come off scott free there either.
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Murray and Tavares aren't anchor contracts?

What he didn't leave his replacement is value deals like Lou did, Riely-Kadri-Hyman-Brown-Andersen.
 
aka Burke pieces, a Dubas trade acquisition and a Lou acquisition using Dubas acquired draft picks.


God bless Lou for all that hard work.
 
Also, the only really revealing thing Treliving said yesterday about roster construction is he thinks winning puck battles in front of both nets is a must in playoff hockey.

Pretty solid indication that Dubas loves Kerf, Kampf, ZAR and Holl aren't even going to be considered to be brought back.

I wonder what happens if you surrounds Pitts core, with the Leafs shitty depth?
 
Red Line said:
Murray and Tavares aren't anchor contracts?

What he didn't leave his replacement is value deals like Lou did, Riely-Kadri-Hyman-Brown-Andersen.
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Murray is a negative contract but not an anchor contract.

Tavares is a top-15 scoring C in the league. He's not an anchor at all.


Brodie, McCabe, Gio, Jarnkrok, Samsonov, Liljegren are all value deals.
 
leafman101 said:
Also, the only really revealing thing Treliving said yesterday about roster construction is he thinks winning puck battles in front of both nets is a must in playoff hockey.

Pretty solid indication that Dubas loves Kerf, Kampf, ZAR and Holl aren't even going to be considered to be brought back.

I wonder what happens if you surrounds Pitts core, with the Leafs shitty depth?
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At the same time he's the same guy that added Jarnkrok as a deadline addition last year. He was then on the teams 4th line in many of the playoff games by the end. So maybe he learned something there but I wouldn't count out him loving some Dubey guys either.
 
mbow30 said:
Also, you’re a shitty playoff performer (Matthew tkachuk) until you’re not (Matthew tkachuk)
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Sometimes even in the same series. If the Leafs had won a couple of those OT games and taken the series, would anyone be celebrating Tkachuk’s 0 goals and 5 assists?
 
zeke said:
Murray is a negative contract but not an anchor contract.

Tavares is a top-15 scoring C in the league. He's not an anchor at all.


Brodie, McCabe, Gio, Jarnkrok, Samsonov, Liljegren are all value deals.
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Tavares can't play C and is about 5m overpaid, we could have kept Hyman for half the price to replace JT's net front play.

Sammy's a rfa
Brodie's has 1 yr left and has declined
Gio is done
Lilly get's scratched every year by your next goat coach and his deal is up after this upcoming season
Jarnkrok a value deal, lol
McCabe's a 3rd pairing D that Dubie paid a 1st for and is only worth what we're paying him

You must have gotten depressed after only being able to dig up that list of names to pimp your boy Dubas.
 
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leafman101 said:
Just thinking a bit about breaking up the core 4. If you look at the history of this market we've been watching this terrible version of a movie on replay over and over again. "you can't win with...".

For 50 years good players have been run our of town because "they can't win" only to go on and win. Almost immediately. "Kadri hurts you in the playoffs, you can't win with him..." Cup. "You can't win with Kessel." Cup. "Kaberle is too soft, you can't win with him" Cup. Murphy. Cups. Damphousse. Cup. McDonald. Cup.

Toronto's experience with that evaluation is pure shit. Its a completely subjective, worthless criteria to evaluate players. The media and fans saying "you should trade player x, you can't win with them" makes me pretty confident that we should not trade player X and we can win with them.

Everyone points to the Tkachuk trade, but the reality is in this situation we would be the team trading the Tkachuk.

its not to say that you can't trade those players and make your team better. And if you can do that great. But it’s much easier to trade those players and make the other team significantly better, your team significantly worse, and watch them win a cup on TV somewhere else.
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Well said. This is my fear as well.
 
Habsy said:
Crosby won it. The rest of the team just watched from the bench. Fleury wasnt a 1OA goalie either.
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Still pissed on Phil Kessel’s behalf that Crosby got the Conn Smythe trophy he deserved for the first of Pittsburgh’s back-to-back Cups.

Though the Conn Smythe can’t be used as a hot-dog container, so Phil probably wasn’t too bothered by it.
 
As for Kyle, after thinking about it some more.. He really does come up clean on the balance sheet with, as zeke said, his best move being not chaining the team to any anchor contracts. However, this is at least somewhat balanced by the fact that he has not added any line driving talent up front or pure goal scorer. The best he did was Bunting but his refusal to do more probably cost them in many of their playoff runs where they seemed to consistently lose because they can't score. And the worst of all was keeping all 3.5m of Kerfoot, a guy that was never a goal scorer even at his best. It was poor use of funds and the reluctance of changing it up (and even doubling down on his twin cock) was very frustrating.

I'm hoping Tree is gonna be a touch more aggressive on that front, but there is a fine line between aggressive and stupid. Hopefully he doesn't cross it as he has in the past but I am pleased that a different approach is likely arriving. I think it's time and I think he's a solid candidate to be the guy to make the trades to COMPLETE this perpetually incomplete looking roster. Of course having some ELC prospects make solid contributions would go a long way as well. Kyle never had that luxury till his final playoff.
 
Kerfoot had 83pts over the last two seasons, never missed a game…3-4pts of that PP….15-16 mins a night.


was he really that dogshit for $3.5m, as to be a primary reason we didn’t make it out of the first round more often?


his nerdies must be horrific, i assume?
 
Montana said:
Kerfoot had 83pts over the last two seasons, never missed a game…3-4pts of that PP….15-16 mins a night.


was he really that dogshit for $3.5m, as to be a primary reason we didn’t make it out of the first round more often?


his nerdies must be horrific, i assume?
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This is the part where I tap out for @MindzEye
 
Preston said:
As for Kyle, after thinking about it some more.. He really does come up clean on the balance sheet with, as zeke said, his best move being not chaining the team to any anchor contracts. However, this is at least somewhat balanced by the fact that he has not added any line driving talent up front or pure goal scorer. The best he did was Bunting but his refusal to do more probably cost them in many of their playoff runs where they seemed to consistently lose because they can't score. And the worst of all was keeping all 3.5m of Kerfoot, a guy that was never a goal scorer even at his best. It was poor use of funds and the reluctance of changing it up (and even doubling down on his twin cock) was very frustrating.

I'm hoping Tree is gonna be a touch more aggressive on that front, but there is a fine line between aggressive and stupid. Hopefully he doesn't cross it as he has in the past but I am pleased that a different approach is likely arriving. I think it's time and I think he's a solid candidate to be the guy to make the trades to COMPLETE this perpetually incomplete looking roster. Of course having some ELC prospects make solid contributions would go a long way as well. Kyle never had that luxury till his final playoff.
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the irony will be if Wes drafts a super stud with that first rounder y'all (understandably) wanted Dubas to trade at the deadline
#TheLedgerIsIncomplete
 
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