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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

Yeah Knies looks like a gamer sure but he's a middle six guy. He could change people's minds but that's where he's at in most scouts minds.

When I floated Marner for Tkachuk it wasn't a lark. Of course Tkachuk went next level after the trade so nobody could really bank on that previously.

I think Calgary would have done Marner and Sandlin for Tkachuk and a decent pick or prospect.

The concern now is overreacting. The last thing you need is to blow it up for "truculence". As the saying goes, never make big decision while in an emotional state if you can avoid it.

Should they lose I think the Leafs will be players at the draft.
 
Preston said:
The nerdies can help tell a story but it takes a deeper analysis to figure out why things happen. I don't know. The Matthews/Marner playoff issues are separate from the teams overall issues post-deadline. I don't know how to fix that. Trading them is dumb but not trading them might be dumb too.

Dubas straying from his vision and identifying slow gudpros and dump and chase/puck off the glass players to fill out his roster is an easier diagnosis for me. That explains the majority of the teams issues since the deadline. But again, the Matthews/Marner stuff only adds to it and that's the harder bit to figure out.

They got lucky that Knies was as good as he was because that forward group without him is clearly lacking. Decent chance they don't beat Tampa without him. And hey, to Kyle's credit maybe it wasn't all luck. That was a great draft pick and Kyle may have known that he was a legit big time "deadline" addition to the forward group.
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The way that Marner & Matthews just quit when things aren’t going their way is why they need to look hard at trading both guys this off-season.

I just can’t imagine that these two guys of all people will want to sign up for continuing to take the heat in Toronto for their failures, or being the guys the team is built around.

At the first opportunity, both guys are definitely going to want to take the path of least resistance and run off to an American market where the fan and media pressure is a fraction of what it is in Toronto, and where they’ll just be adding themselves to an existing core group.

Best to get out ahead of that inevitable departure and get the best returns they can.
 
soco22 said:
Ban and lock this thread - pussy move
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Meh.

For those who want to pretend there’s hope that this group will become the second team in NHL history to come back from a 3-0 series deficit, there’s still the playoff thread & upcoming GDT for game 4.

For those of us ready to move on already, there’s this thread.
 
I'm at a complete loss on where you go from here honestly.

The goaltending situation needs to be fixed. Woll might be the answer but we need a coach that has the balls to run with it for a while to figure it out.

Outside of that, how do you really get better? The UFA crop this year is garbage, not seeing any difference makers there for the playoffs.

After that you are looking at a "hockey trade." ... and i just dont see who the trade partner would be...the only team that may be looking to make a big shake up is maybe Winnipeg? In hindsight Tkachuk really was the shake up we needed.
 
Cojo said:
I'm at a complete loss on where you go from here honestly.

The goaltending situation needs to be fixed. Woll might be the answer but we need a coach that has the balls to run with it for a while to figure it out.

Outside of that, how do you really get better? The UFA crop this year is garbage, not seeing any difference makers there for the playoffs.

After that you are looking at a "hockey trade." ... and i just dont see who the trade partner would be...the only team that may be looking to make a big shake up is maybe Winnipeg? In hindsight Tkachuk really was the shake up we needed.
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I honestly don’t think there is any way to “get better”, or any quick fix for this team.

We’re in full “tear it down and rebuild” territory. Which I acknowledge is unprecedented when talking about a team coming off back-to-back 110+ point/top-5 finishes.

But it’s also unprecedented for a team that’s been as good for as long as these guys have been in the regular season to be so reliably futile in the playoffs during the same period of time. And I don’t see any reason to be optimistic that it’ll change at this point.
 
Preston said:
Wrong time to say this. The stats showed that Florida is really good and should not be underestimated. And while you were plugging your ears and excited about their record post deadline and the leafs series win, others were concerned because the stats were showing that they were not playing good hockey. Meaning any future success is unlikely unless they play better.... And here we are.

My take home is that advanced stats have crushed it this playoff. High predictive value. Your "nothing matters, just win" mentality has proven bullshit.
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Virtually all very team remains are advanced stats darlings
 
Hate to say it but there's not enough toxic masculinity in Tavares, Matthews, Nylander and Marner. They're good boys.
 
Cojo said:
I'm at a complete loss on where you go from here honestly.

The goaltending situation needs to be fixed. Woll might be the answer but we need a coach that has the balls to run with it for a while to figure it out.

Outside of that, how do you really get better? The UFA crop this year is garbage, not seeing any difference makers there for the playoffs.

After that you are looking at a "hockey trade." ... and i just dont see who the trade partner would be...the only team that may be looking to make a big shake up is maybe Winnipeg? In hindsight Tkachuk really was the shake up we needed.
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Seattle is loaded with talent but I would wait until next year. Gotta stay the course unfortunately.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Winnipeg is interesting but don’t all the core 4 have NMC? Ain’t nobody signing off on that
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I wouldn't trade either Marner or Matthews for any of their players. Morrissey is interesting but it would take Connor as well just to start the conversation.

Just doesn't seem like a good trading partner.
 
Lilly is reason enough to fire Keefe

Gor cap purposes you need him as a top 4 D going forward but this coach and lesser extent the GM have possibly fucked him up mentally
 
Habsy said:
I wouldn't trade either Marner or Matthews for any of their players. Morrissey is interesting but it would take Connor as well just to stay the conversation.

Just doesn't seem like a good trading partner.
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There isn’t a good trading partner and you are never going to make a good trade just a different one
 
CH1 said:
Nobody is tearing down and rebuilding a back to back 110+ point team
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Then we’ll get a re-run of the same movie next year, except it’ll be capped by Matthews (and maybe Nylander too) leaving for nothing in return at the end of the season.

We’re well into “the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over and expecting different results” territory at this point.

These guys have even helpfully put to bed the notion (hope?) that they just needed to get the first round monkey off their backs and then they’d be off to the races.
 
Liljegren's play post-deadline was concerning for sure. He was an impact top 4, arguably top 2 defensman all season before that but he just fell off a cliff. I shouldn't let small samples impact things but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't at least slightly concerning to see him fall off a cliff as soon as Raz was traded.

But yeah.. They should have tried a bit harder for Ekholm. They would have done just fine without Kerf and his salary. I promise. Him and Jarnkrok were predictably garbage and playoff duds. Doubling down on Kerf energy was certainly a decision.
 
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