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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

Preston said:
Liljegren's play post-deadline was concerning for sure. He was an impact top 4, arguably top 2 defensman all season before that but he just fell off a cliff. I shouldn't let small samples impact things but I'd be lying if I said it wasn't at least slightly concerning to see him fall off a cliff as soon as Raz was traded.

But yeah.. They should have tried a bit harder for Ekholm. They would have done just fine without Kerf and his salary. I promise. Him and Jarnkrok were predictably garbage and playoff duds. Doubling down on Kerf energy was certainly a decision.
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Couldn’t some of this be attributed to acquiring 3 D at the deadline and removing him from existence?

I don’t think Shelly has ever trusted him
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Couldn’t some of this be attributed to acquiring 3 D at the deadline and removing him from existence?

I don’t think Shelly has ever trusted him
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His confidence was definitely shot. I hope that's all it was. But even then, I'm over fragile players. Not saying that I think he sucks or that they need to trade him (please no) but it was disappointing to see him play so poorly for the last couple of months.
 
Preston said:
His confidence was definitely shot. I hope that's all it was. But even then, I'm over fragile players.
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From a purely financial standpoint he’s needed in a large role, or traded for a similar contract.

I’d find a coach that believes in him
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
From a purely financial standpoint he’s needed in a large role, or traded for a similar contract.

I’d find a coach that believes in him
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Being a young d in Toronto appears to be a ticket to never being trusted enough to play meaningful minutes, yeah. It's a shame. There is a lot of incentive for them to want to pack their shit for sure. I'm sure Timmy is gonna look at Raz's next contract want want out.
 
Preston said:
Being a young d in Toronto appears to be a ticket to never being trusted enough to play meaningful minutes, yeah. It's a shame. There is a lot of incentive for them to want to pack their shit for sure. I'm sure Timmy is gonna look at Raz's next contract want want out.
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Not getting him right means signing Luke Schenn to a hometown discount of like 3/10.5
 
There's no solution. There's a big bright bear case in anything they decide on this summer.
 
CH1 said:
Nobody is tearing down and rebuilding a back to back 110+ point team
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They aren't but they should. The Leafs cease to be a 110+ point team when the playoffs start so their regular season stats shouldn't spare them from the axe. They need to get rid of Dubas and Keefe then burn the roster to the ground. If this core four were going to win anything they'd have done it by now. It's not happening. It's never happening. They're stuck with Tavares and his untradeable contract but they should be looking to move on from the other three as well as letting ROR walk as yet another deadline pickup that didn't move the needle like Jumbo Joe, Spezza, Marleau and Foligno. The fans have proven time and again that they will accept whatever they're told to accept. It won't stop them from buying tickets and merch. So blow it up and start over because this isn't salvageable. Like Habsy said, the current roster doesn't have the balls to do what's necessary to win so get a new roster.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Did you mean beer case or that situation is so bad it’s like an unruly case of bears?
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I mean no matter what they do, there is a very strong case that it could age horribly. I'm not going to pretend I know what the right move is.

If you hold a gun to my head, I try to trade Marner in a "hockey" trade for an impact player at any position but goalie, but those trades rarely available. My bet is the they trade Nylander and bring the rest of the gang back. That's the pussy "in-between" move. Realistically the three real possibilities are:

1. Trade Matthews or Marner (probably Marner) in a "hockey trade" where you get at least 1 impact player back.
2. Trade Nylander for scraps (which is all they'll get) and deploy that money on another impact player.
3. Bring everyone back and tRuSt tHe pRoCeSs

I don't know what I'd do but I think I may hate #2 the most. But I also think it's the most likely by far. I suppose you can trade Nylander AND Marner depending on what they get in return. That would be a major shakeup and I wouldn't be opposed to it if they got real value back. But man, I'm just not confident they would.
 
Preston said:
I mean no matter what they do, there is a very strong case that it could age horribly. I'm not going to pretend I know what the right move is.

If you hold a gun to my head, I try to trade Marner in a "hockey" trade for an impact player at any position but goalie, but those trades rarely available. My bet is the they trade Nylander and bring the rest of the gang back. That's the pussy "in-between" move. Realistically the three real possibilities are:

1. Trade Matthews or Marner (probably Marner) in a "hockey trade" where you get at least 1 impact player back.
2. Trade Nylander for scraps (which is all they'll get) and deploy that money on another impact player.
3. Bring everyone back and tRuSt tHe pRoCeSs

I don't know what I'd do but I think I may hate #2 the most. But I also think it's the most likely by far. I suppose you can trade Nylander AND Marner depending on what they get in return. That would be a major shakeup and I wouldn't be opposed to it if they got real value back. But man, I'm just not confident they would.
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My guess is 3 with a coaching change
 
axlsalinger said:
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I keep thinking about this one and how true it is.

Is there a single other team in the league you can say this about? Each of our top 4 guys will just sit there and get punched in the face and take it. I don't see one other team in the league who doesn't have at least a couple guys in their top 4 or 5 who mix it up, aren't afraid to scrum, maybe even a bit dirty. Especially the contenders.

In the last many years on this board the consensus has been that those things don't matter. But when all of your top guys are trying to be Gandhi, maybe it does.

In hindsight, Matthews smiling like an idiot while he let Weber ragdoll him like he was a child was a warning sign.
 
Preston said:
I mean no matter what they do, there is a very strong case that it could age horribly. I'm not going to pretend I know what the right move is.

If you hold a gun to my head, I try to trade Marner in a "hockey" trade for an impact player at any position but goalie, but those trades rarely available. My bet is the they trade Nylander and bring the rest of the gang back. That's the pussy "in-between" move. Realistically the three real possibilities are:

1. Trade Matthews or Marner (probably Marner) in a "hockey trade" where you get at least 1 impact player back.
2. Trade Nylander for scraps (which is all they'll get) and deploy that money on another impact player.
3. Bring everyone back and tRuSt tHe pRoCeSs

I don't know what I'd do but I think I may hate #2 the most. But I also think it's the most likely by far. I suppose you can trade Nylander AND Marner depending on what they get in return. That would be a major shakeup and I wouldn't be opposed to it if they got real value back. But man, I'm just not confident they would.
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Matthews is the guy you look to move because he's the guy most likely to leave as a free agent. The longer they wait on pulling the trigger the less they get in return. #34 is the domino that needs to fall first and he's the one most likely to get you a good return from a hockey standpoint (provided, of course, that your GM isn't a complete imbecile)
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Matthews is the guy you look to move because he's the guy most likely to leave as a free agent. The longer they wait on pulling the trigger the less they get in return. #34 is the domino that needs to fall first and he's the one most likely to get you a good return from a hockey standpoint (provided, of course, that your GM isn't a complete imbecile)
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that is a biggggggggggggggggg ask
 
And of course if Matthews gives any indication that he wants out, then he's the guy you trade. But between him and Marner, he's going to way way way way harder to replace and unless they somehow get a unicorn 1C in return for him, they probably won't be contenders next year. I question if JT is a 2C, much less 1C. Best case scenario for me is they extend Auston and they ship out ol' Mitchie for a legit NHL-ready package. Otherwise, if you trade Matthews you might as well blow it up I think.
 
They will trade Nylander and that is all what happens.
Glasses will keep building grey hounds and not winning NHL team, fantastic for OHL but not for NHL
 
WellPlayed said:
I keep thinking about this one and how true it is.

Is there a single other team in the league you can say this about? Each of our top 4 guys will just sit there and get punched in the face and take it. I don't see one other team in the league who doesn't have at least a couple guys in their top 4 or 5 who mix it up, aren't afraid to scrum, maybe even a bit dirty. Especially the contenders.

In the last many years on this board the consensus has been that those things don't matter. But when all of your top guys are trying to be Gandhi, maybe it does.

In hindsight, Matthews smiling like an idiot while he let Weber ragdoll him like he was a child was a warning sign.
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But when he retaliated he goes to the box and is unable to do anything anyways. There is no winning this one. You fight, you’re a dumbass who is letting emotions get the best of you. You don’t? You’re a gigantic pussy who won’t stand up for yourself.
 
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