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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

LeafOfFaith said:
You were trying (and failed) to establish an inconsistency in my statements.

I'm showing you that a player may not be providing full value under his deal, and yet it would be stupid to dump them. OEL is just one example to go along with Tavares.
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You said he wasnt worth his money.

Also that there was no reason to move him.

But him not being worth his money is a very good reason to move him.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Sure, but still none of his best years compare to what McDavid has done the past two years, especially when you take playoff stats into account.
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Explain how the convo goes anything but like this

Matthews- I'd like 8 x the max
Leafs- Well you aren't as good as McDavid
Matthews- Okay, cool, i'll play out the year and sign for 8 x the max as a UFA, by the way, the cap is going up
Leafs- We could trade you
Matthews- Cool, i wont extend with anyone, enjoy your return
Leafs- So, how about 8 x the max?
 
WellPlayed said:
Also this just doesn't make sense. LM101 was just adjusting McDavids current contract for cap %, not saying its his current value. He signed that contract long before he put up 64/153.

McDavid signing after that season is getting the max, $16.3m, obviously. And if it wasn't capped probably gets more.
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Says who? Why do other players leave money on the table?

Tavares left $3M to come home to Toronto. Why wouldn't McDavid do something similar if he wants to play on a superteam of Matty, Marner, Nylander, and others?
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Even though he wasn't providing full value.

Just as it would be stupid (for different reasons) to dump Tavares because he's not an $11m player right now.
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Its stupid for Vancouver to buy out OEL because they suck, no amount of reasonable roster changes will alter the fact they suck. Keep OEL on the books until you can move him

It makes sense for Toronto to move on from Tavares because it's likely they can use that 11M on other things that are better than what Tavares offers at this stage.

The problem, at the core here, is you seem to be unaware that Tavares isn't what he was.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Explain how the convo goes anything but like this

Matthews- I'd like 8 x the max
Leafs- Well you aren't as good as McDavid
Matthews- Okay, cool, i'll play out the year and sign for 8 x the max as a UFA, by the way, the cap is going up
Leafs- We could trade you
Matthews- Cool, i wont extend with anyone, enjoy your return
Leafs- So, how about 8 x the max?
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You guys have difficulty with reading comprehension or something.

I said Matthews will get whatever he wants. The issue is what does he deserve and what should he be willing to take.

This is about what Matthews' mindset is (max my money or leave some to go around in order to win), not how negotiations will go.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
You guys have difficulty with reading comprehension or something.

I said Matthews will get whatever he wants. The issue is what does he deserve and what should he be willing to take.

This is about what Matthews' mindset is (max my money or leave some to go around in order to win), not how negotiations will go.
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Okay great, for clarity's sake then

You are a pis poor authority on both what players deserve and what their mindset is.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Says who? Why do other players leave money on the table?

Tavares left $3M to come home to Toronto. Why wouldn't McDavid do something similar if he wants to play on a superteam of Matty, Marner, Nylander, and others?
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You were talking about value, and doing some calculation where

(Matthews points / McDavid points) * McDavid salary = Matthews value

I was explaining why McDavids contract he signed years ago, adjusted for cap %, does not equal his current value.

Why the fuck are we talking about hometown super friends discounts now?
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Its stupid for Vancouver to buy out OEL because they suck, no amount of reasonable roster changes will alter the fact they suck. Keep OEL on the books until you can move him

It makes sense for Toronto to move on from Tavares because it's likely they can use that 11M on other things that are better than what Tavares offers at this stage.

The problem, at the core here, is you seem to be unaware that Tavares isn't what he was.
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Wrong. I never said he's as good as he was in his first year. But he's still pretty fucking good.

And I told you OEL and Tavares are different cases.

Buying out OEL when you're not competitive and will now carry years of substantial dead cap is fucking stupid, no matter how much cap he was taking up on the roster.

Dumping Tavares when he's still a really good player is fucking stupid because you're not going to be able to replace him with someone as good as or better than him without (1) trading assets for said replacement, and (2) paying said replacement substantial dollars (likely $8M or more) - in each case, ONLY IF such a trade for a player is available (there is no UFA who would replace him, we know that). And then you trade assets and pay this replacement, all to create $3M in savings that you can pay to a Kerf. Like I said, fucking stupid.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Wrong. I never said he's as good as he was in his first year. But he's still pretty fucking good.

And I told you OEL and Tavares are different cases.

Buying out OEL when you're not competitive and will now carry years of substantial dead cap is fucking stupid, no matter how much cap he was taking up on the roster.

Dumping Tavares when he's still a really good player is fucking stupid because you're not going to be able to replace him with someone as good as or better than him without (1) trading assets for said replacement, and (2) paying said replacement substantial dollars (likely $8M or more) - in each case, ONLY IF such a trade for a player is available (there is no UFA who would replace him, we know that). And then you trade assets and pay this replacement, all to create $3M in savings that you can pay to a Kerf. Like I said, fucking stupid.
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I think you can replace 2LW for 11M
 
WellPlayed said:
You were talking about value, and doing some calculation where

(Matthews points / McDavid points) * McDavid salary = Matthews value

I was explaining why McDavids contract he signed years ago, adjusted for cap %, does not equal his current value.

Why the fuck are we talking about hometown super friends discounts now?
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It doesn't matter if his current value is $13.9M or something even higher.

McDavid blew away Matthews. Not only that, lots of other players making far less did much better.

I'm not going to calculate all the pacing, but 19 guys scored 40 or more last year. How many are making over $12M?

Even with pacing, he'd have finished only 15th overall in points.

He also made it out of the first round for the first time, only to lose in 5 games to the underdog.

How do you justify being the highest paid player in the league under these circumstances?

You can't. You can only say "pay me anyway" - and that's what will determine who we're dealing with and how far the team will go.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Same point with both, different reasons for being stupid dumps.

Are you trying to be a fucking idiot?
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Nobody suggested buying out Tavares.

Trading him because he's still good enough to possibly work out an interesting deal, especially with him being owed not very much in actual money though, is smart to consider.

OEL is unplayable. There is no conceivable way of trading away his caphit without taking as much dead cap in return.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
I think you can replace 2LW for 11M
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Yeah, on your xbox.

In real life, there's no UFA that would replace him, so you have to go acquire a replacement with picks and players, so you're already down, and then you have to pay him and find something worthwhile to spend your saved $2m or $3m on. So, is paying via player/picks to find some magical 2C replacement that no team is giving up for cheap worth trying to dump an 80 point player with 2 years left just so you can free up $3M?

Once more - a fucking stupid notion.
 
Tldr: lof is emotionally invested in some players, good or bad, and it impacts his opinions or at least what he states are his opinions. The double standards are starting to get him in trouble, folks. We're seeing cracks.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Yeah, on your xbox.

In real life, there's no UFA that would replace him, so you have to go acquire a replacement with picks and players, so you're already down, and then you have to pay him and find something worthwhile to spend your saved $2m or $3m on. So, is paying via player/picks to find some magical 2C replacement that no team is giving up for cheap worth trying to dump an 80 point player with 2 years left just so you can free up $3M?

Once more - a fucking stupid notion.
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There are lots of players that could replsce his even strength offense, many of them with better defense.

So the question would be - would our PP really get worse without him? It was pretty good before he got here.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Yeah, on your xbox.

In real life, there's no UFA that would replace him, so you have to go acquire a replacement with picks and players, so you're already down, and then you have to pay him and find something worthwhile to spend your saved $2m or $3m on. So, is paying via player/picks to find some magical 2C replacement that no team is giving up for cheap worth trying to dump an 80 point player with 2 years left just so you can free up $3M?

Once more - a fucking stupid notion.
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He's not a 2C anymore.
 
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