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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

I’m saying his down year and early playoff exit yet again shouldn’t justify paying him like he’s the best player in the league like he arguably was two seasons ago.

For your peace of mind, you better hope Treliving doesn’t take this approach because if I’m in Matthews camp, I’d respond with “oh, you didn’t LOVE my last 12 months? Let’s talk contract again in 12 months so that you can better evaluate my value with further data points”
 
Thats basically how you negotiate with that level of player. Basically with a blank check and hope that he's not trying to fuck you.

You have, at length, argued that Tavares is worth 11 because san Jose offered him 13.5....there is 15-16 million x 7 waiting for Auston next summer if he wants it. Everyone knows what the market for him would be like.
you continue to avoid the pajama paradox.
 
Thats basically how you negotiate with that level of player. Basically with a blank check and hope that he's not trying to fuck you.

You have, at length, argued that Tavares is worth 11 because san Jose offered him 13.5....there is 15-16 million x 7 waiting for Auston next summer if he wants it. Everyone knows what the market for him would be like.
These two subjects are not the same.

Tavares went all the way to UFA and was the best of his class and had competing bids from other teams in hand. And still left $3M on the table, for the record. If Matty wants to go that far and let the next 12 months speak to his value, that's his right, but then he also assumes the risk of having a shit year or getting catastrophically injured.

If he doesn't want to take that risk, there should be a discount. And if he wants to sign now, he's doing it in a year where he was a 94 point player and McDavid put up 153, and several other players scored over 50 including Pastrnak who scored 60 and just signed for $11.25m, so what is the basis for being the highest paid player in the league - because he's a center? Okay, but he's a center with zero playoff success, unlike Pastrnak and others. And McDavid is a center too, signed for $12.5m for the next three seasons still, which, if Matty signs for only 5 years, should serve as a cap on him frankly. Beyond all that, how much money is enough? Does he need to be highest paid for bragging rights - most expensive loser? Because he'll be eating up dollars that can go to better supporting players instead of more ZARs, so he needs to decide if a cup is what he really wants or not. He can already buy whatever the hell he wants for the rest of his life, but he's only got around 5-10 years to establish himself as a winner.
 
McDavids deal under an 83.5 mill cap is 13.9 mill.

and Matthews deal won’t start until next year when the cap will be much higher.
 
These two subjects are not the same.

Tavares went all the way to UFA and was the best of his class and had competing bids from other teams in hand. And still left $3M on the table, for the record. If Matty wants to go that far and let the next 12 months speak to his value, that's his right, but then he also assumes the risk of having a shit year or getting catastrophically injured.

If he doesn't want to take that risk, there should be a discount. And if he wants to sign now, he's doing it in a year where he was a 94 point player and McDavid put up 153, and several other players scored over 50 including Pastrnak who scored 60 and just signed for $11.25m, so what is the basis for being the highest paid player in the league - because he's a center? Okay, but he's a center with zero playoff success, unlike Pastrnak and others. And McDavid is a center too, signed for $12.5m for the next three seasons still, which, if Matty signs for only 5 years, should serve as a cap on him frankly. Beyond all that, how much money is enough? Does he need to be highest paid for bragging rights - most expensive loser? Because he'll be eating up dollars that can go to better supporting players instead of more ZARs, so he needs to decide if a cup is what he really wants or not. He can already buy whatever the hell he wants for the rest of his life, but he's only got around 5-10 years to establish himself as a winner.
my head hurts.
 
I’ve never said Tavares is providing $11m of value right now

there’s zero sense in dumping him now with two years left

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McDavids deal under an 83.5 mill cap is 13.9 mill.

and Matthews deal won’t start until next year when the cap will be much higher.
I'm not sure who ever said that we should be giving so much weight to percentage of the cap as THE basis for comparison, but no problem - McDavid put up 50% more goals and points than Matthews. So say $13.9m is McDavid's contract value under today's cap. What should Matty's be when McDavid scored 64 goals to his 40, or 153 points to his (paced) 94 points?
 
I'm not sure who ever said that we should be giving so much weight to percentage of the cap as THE basis for comparison, but no problem - McDavid put up 50% more goals and points than Matthews. So say $13.9m is McDavid's contract value under today's cap. What should Matty's be when McDavid scored 64 goals to his 40, or 153 points to his (paced) 94 points?
OK cool. Now do Tavares.
 
This coming from the guy who agrees that it was stupid for Vancouver to buy out OEL just today.

Which, of course, acknowledges that you don't just automatically (and stupidly) dump a player because they're not providing full value under their deal. There was no sense in Vancouver buying out OEL today because he wasn't worth his $8M, and there'd be no sense in dumping Tavares just because he's not an $11M player (but still a really good player) in the final two years of his deal.
 
I'm not sure who ever said that we should be giving so much weight to percentage of the cap as THE basis for comparison, but no problem - McDavid put up 50% more goals and points than Matthews. So say $13.9m is McDavid's contract value under today's cap. What should Matty's be when McDavid scored 64 goals to his 40, or 153 points to his (paced) 94 points?

Well Matthews isn’t going to ignore all his best years in negotiations
 
I'm not sure who ever said that we should be giving so much weight to percentage of the cap as THE basis for comparison, but no problem - McDavid put up 50% more goals and points than Matthews. So say $13.9m is McDavid's contract value under today's cap. What should Matty's be when McDavid scored 64 goals to his 40, or 153 points to his (paced) 94 points?
Also this just doesn't make sense. LM101 was just adjusting McDavids current contract for cap %, not saying its his current value. He signed that contract long before he put up 64/153.

McDavid signing after that season is getting the max, $16.3m, obviously. And if it wasn't capped probably gets more.
 
This coming from the guy who agrees that it was stupid for Vancouver to buy out OEL just today.

Which, of course, acknowledges that you don't just automatically (and stupidly) dump a player because they're not providing full value under their deal. There was no sense in Vancouver buying out OEL today because he wasn't worth his $8M, and there'd be no sense in dumping Tavares just because he's not an $11M player (but still a really good player) in the final two years of his deal.

What does OEL have to do with tavares.
 
This coming from the guy who agrees that it was stupid for Vancouver to buy out OEL just today.

Which, of course, acknowledges that you don't just automatically (and stupidly) dump a player because they're not providing full value under their deal. There was no sense in Vancouver buying out OEL today because he wasn't worth his $8M, and there'd be no sense in dumping Tavares just because he's not an $11M player (but still a really good player) in the final two years of his deal.
but

it was stupid to buy out OEL
 
What does OEL have to do with tavares.
You were trying (and failed) to establish an inconsistency in my statements.

I'm showing you that a player may not be providing full value under his deal, and yet it would be stupid to dump them. OEL is just one example to go along with Tavares.
 
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