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TML? More like FML, amirite? Yet Another Off Season Thread

Neurospasm said:
I think both Ras and Liljegren have to been mainstays on the blueline this year, no matter what happens. I'm just more sure about Liljegren being in this lineup longterm compared to Sandin at this moment. Bridge Sandin, lock up Liljegren long term.
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If it's in any way possible, 5 or 6 years x $3.5M for Lilly and sit back and enjoy.
 
Preston said:
I mean I think he can get a late 1st and maybe a B prospect (with a middle six ceiling if lucky) in return. That's not exactly the return of the best dman on the planet. Hell, that's a classic package a decent rental at the deadline; something people pay for 15 games of a player. So for me it's not about that. It's mostly about him being something that they don't really have. A good, big defensive, physical d with a proven track record against the best players in the league.

And whether you trade him or he sucks next year in the playoffs, the result is the same. They're going to miss that element. That's all I'm saying. I see the argument for keeping him and trading him.

There's a bit of gaslighting going on too with the implications that he was late career Phaneuf last season. He wasn't himself but he wasn't exactly horrible either. Too much hyperbole there. And he wiped that all out with a brilliant playoffs with probably the best, most stable pair we've seen on this team in maybe 20 years. Maybe that wouldn't have continued but they did a bang up job in those seven games.
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I think maybe you misinterpreted my comments there.

I said he's not the best dman in the world to make the point that it's not like our team would go down the fucking tubes without the Muzz patrolling the D zone. What was our record in games he didn't play this year, 25-5 or some other wildly good record? He was very good, very solid in this series. Liked him a lot. He took a couple of nice blasts from the point. But he wasn't a difference maker. He's not throwing bone crushing hits and using his size and strength to pulverize. He's big and strong, but honestly not as physical as he should be given his stature.

I saw Lilly throwing his weight around a LOT more than Muzz since he started playing regularly, plus and can skate and transition and shoot fucking hard too. Lilly is kinda a star under the radar right now. I've always been high on him, always said he looked better than Sandin to me, and I think you and everyone else are now severely underrating him and what he's going to bring. He's the natural replacement, and an easy internal option, and - brace for it - an UPGRADE on Muzz. After what I saw in this series, I don't even care all that much about the physical shit. Let them hit us. I care about mobility and speed and skill - try to hit us but in the meantime I'm going to outskate you and fucking score. It's basically the Mikky and Engvall philosophy - they don't really hit either, but they're so hard to catch and if you do catch them, you're not really going to hurt them with a hit. Lilly is the same to me, he can skate the puck out, pass and shoot like a stud, and he's defensively responsible and very tough to outskate or outmuscle in the D zone. That's why I'm not worried.

That's why I think the risk in this move is minimal to almost zero. Think of it however you like if you don't want to consider Lilly the actual Muzz replacement, and instead flip Babshkie for Lilly, and Gio for Muzz. Lilly destroys Baushkie, and Gio isn't a downgrade and may even be an upgrade on Muzz too (definitely based on Gio's brief stint, Gio was the more valuable player).

Another factor here is what is that return going to be for Muzz? No way is it some late 1st and B prospect. He's not the best dman in the world, but based on his reputation (shit, look how much you love him after a truly disastrous campaign), he'll be in high demand. I don't even really want the pick. Instead of the 1st, I'd target a former 1st who is showing himself to be a stud in the making (forward preferably) and who needs an opportunity. Need to identify a team with too much offense and not enough D, and make that move.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
If it's in any way possible, 5 or 6 years x $3.5M for Lilly and sit back and enjoy.
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Going long on Lilly would be sweet, but that’d take some faith in him as a player.

Which the nerd clearly doesn’t have when he and his coach dumped him from the playoff lineup at the drop of a hat and never considered putting him back in.

He’ll get bridged. One or two year deal for as low a cap hit as they can possibly get him for.
 
Since it sounds like the Core 4 will be left as is and Keefe/Dubas will be returning, is there anyone here that's decided not to watch at all next year?
 
LeafGm said:
Going long on Lilly would be sweet, but that’d take some faith in him as a player.

Which the nerd clearly doesn’t have when he and his coach dumped him from the playoff lineup at the drop of a hat and never considered putting him back in.

He’ll get bridged. One or two year deal for as low a cap hit as they can possibly get him for.
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I'm skeptical Dubie was on board with not playing Lilly in the series. That was Keefe all the way, imo.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Another factor here is what is that return going to be for Muzz? No way is it some late 1st and B prospect. He's not the best dman in the world, but based on his reputation (shit, look how much you love him after a truly disastrous campaign), he'll be in high demand. I don't even really want the pick. Instead of the 1st, I'd target a former 1st who is showing himself to be a stud in the making (forward preferably) and who needs an opportunity. Need to identify a team with too much offense and not enough D, and make that move.
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Gotta be careful with this. Canes fans are out for blood around here and will mock you on their board.
 
hockeylover said:
Since it sounds like the Core 4 will be left as is and Keefe/Dubas will be returning, is there anyone here that's decided not to watch at all next year?
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They will be competitive and fun to watch in the regular season again so Ill tune in as usual

Im nervous/excited for the non core changes. Those will help determine the expectations going into the playoffs
 
hockeylover said:
Since it sounds like the Core 4 will be left as is and Keefe/Dubas will be returning, is there anyone here that's decided not to watch at all next year?
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Very excited to watch as per usual. When it stops becoming entertainment and a fun distraction from things that actually matter in life I'll stop watching. For now it's still a blast. I can't see myself ever not enjoying it. I mean I watched most games in the years they had zero talent after all. You've gotta be on crack to turn this team down.
 
Artnes said:
The only way around it is to take away the misfits. Dont give him a gudpro vet to use.

Every coach has a soft spot for them
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Yeah, I figure Keefe cried about having muscle on D and the 4th line and Dubie caved and gave him these bums.

He has to walk away from Bushkie, and bury Cliffy and Simmonds or even better trade them off for something (anything).

Dubie needs to understand that this is probably his last chance to get out of the first round. If I'm him, I attack this Sinatra style and do things my way, fuck the noise from everyone else. Just give Keefe the players you want to have playing and tell him to figure it out. No more goon and bum options to choose from.
 
Goal next year has to be to win the division. There has to be something in between playing the Habs and Blue Jackets and the fucking dynasty organization. Washington was that this year. I'd take something like that and I don't doubt they would have taken them quite easily this year. And if they can't that's when you've gotta actually question things. Don't do that after losing to Tampa.
 
I'm still so bummed. Going into it, I was fine taking on TB. I really wasn't scared of them.

I preferred Boston. Looked like a good choice initially too, but they stormed back and also only lost by one goal in the end, so who knows.

Felt like we could've and should've taken down either or both of them.
 
After watching the press conference highlights, I'd fire both of them.

Definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. They seemed out of answers. They've brought this team as high as they can, it's time for new leadership.
 
hockeylover said:
Since it sounds like the Core 4 will be left as is and Keefe/Dubas will be returning, is there anyone here that's decided not to watch at all next year?
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I’d really love to quit this team cold turkey at this point, but I’m not going to kid myself. I’m most likely hooked for life.

The most I might do is leave all my Leaf gear in the closet for the second year in a row and make it less of a priority to set aside time to catch regular season Leaf games. But if I’m at home and the Leafs are playing, I’ll probably be watching.
 
zeke said:
No it isn't.

It's a solid definition of perseverance, though.

And of process over results.
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There is nothing over results.

Results are the reason a process exists.

hockeylover said:
Since it sounds like the Core 4 will be left as is and Keefe/Dubas will be returning, is there anyone here that's decided not to watch at all next year?
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Probably not around here. But it's a reasonable question to ask, or at least it should be.
 
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