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2024 Draft

GGpX said:
I should rephrase. He didn't like how I got to my question. Basically, going year over year & seeing how many players made the league & how many made the league & how many did this, how many did that, doesn't excuse one major thing: Trevor Timmins is directly responsible for the shitshow we have in Montreal right now. And for that reason alone, he deserves an F (or in French, "E" for Échec). Thought I was too harsh.

Then rambled on about how much is it drafting vs development.
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I think you're too harsh too, both in your evaluation and your premise, and I'm not a big Timmins supporter.
 
GrandWazoo said:
I think you're too harsh too, both in your evaluation and your premise, and I'm not a big Timmins supporter.
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Timmins was garbage, full stop. Don't believe me? Consider the fact that he hired Grant McCagg as a scout (albeit briefly) and the draft and development shithole this franchise became under his tenure. Maggie the Macacque from the TSN playoff prediction show could have done as good a job as Timmins did.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Timmins was garbage, full stop. Don't believe me? Consider the fact that he hired Grant McCagg as a scout (albeit briefly) and the draft and development shithole this franchise became under his tenure. Maggie the Macacque from the TSN playoff prediction show could have done as good a job as Timmins did.
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F is too harsh, as is blaming him for the current state when MB has more responsibility in it.
 
2003: F - Yes we got 4 guys playing 300+ games, but missing out on a franchise player in a generational draft is an absolute failure
2004 : B - Chipchura wasn't great and we missed on Zajac and Green, but we also got Emelin, Grabovsky and Streit in later rounds
2005 : A - Price, Latendresse, D'Agostini and S.Kostitsyn was a good haul. A for Price alone, even though we missed on Kopitar, at least we didn't draft Brule
2006 : F - Fischer over Giroux, enough said
2007 : A - McDonagh, MaxPac, Subban
2008 : D - Absolutely nothing, but only 5 picks and first pick 56th overall, can't blame Timmins
2009 : F - Leblanc over Kreider
2010 : B - Only 5 picks, missed on Tinordi but got Gallagher
2011 : D - Just Beaulieu, but wasn't that great of a draft
2012 : C - We drafted Galchenyuk where he was ranked, it was a pretty bad cuvee overall
2013 : C - McCarron was an horrible mistake but Lehkonen was a find in a pretty bad draft year
2014 : D - Not that much after Sherbak at 26th, Evans salvages it from a F
2015 : D - Juulsen wasn't that bad of a pick, got derailed by injuries. But overall a miss
2016 : A - Sergachev was one of the best pick of that draft
2017 : D - Poehling at 25th, not a great draft year overall. Got Primeau in the 7th.
2018 : D - KK was a huge blunder, Romanov and Harris saves it from an F.
2019 : A - Caufield was a steal at 15th. Struble showing value with our 2nd pick as well
2020 : B - Guhle was a great pick, we might get some value from Tuch and Dobes as well. I lost faith in Farrell.
2021 : TBD - Mailloux and Roy showing promises

Scoring A=6,B=4,C=3,D=1,E=0 (I value good years higher, and punish bad years accordingly), I ranked him as D+, Which is still pretty bad.
 
Except GGpX said “shitshow we have in Montreal right now” - it wasn’t an evaluation of TT’s overall record. Let’s take a portion of your list:

2009 : F - Leblanc over Kreider
2010 : B - Only 5 picks, missed on Tinordi but got Gallagher
2011 : D - Just Beaulieu, but wasn't that great of a draft
2012 : C - We drafted Galchenyuk where he was ranked, it was a pretty bad cuvee overall
2013 : C - McCarron was an horrible mistake but Lehkonen was a find in a pretty bad draft year
2014 : D - Not that much after Sherbak at 26th, Evans salvages it from a F
2015 : D - Juulsen wasn't that bad of a pick, got derailed by injuries. But overall a miss
2016 : A - Sergachev was one of the best pick of that draft
2017 : D - Poehling at 25th, not a great draft year overall. Got Primeau in the 7th.
2018 : D - KK was a huge blunder, Romanov and Harris saves it from an F.

So from 2009 to 2017, we’re looking at players who would be 24 to 32 years old. This should be the core of a team. From a team building perspective, this list is catastrophic - with Bergevin responsible for the Sergachev trade.

But our core is a bunch kids, post KK draft picks. Not ideal. We don’t have those 26-30 year olds who should be leading the team. Ours are deadweight.

Simply put, for TT, it’s too little too late. He is responsible for the current shitshow, with an assist to stupid contracts handed out by Bergevin.
 
2004: I don't see Chipchura, Emelin, Grabovsky and Streit meriting a B. That's a C- at best.
2016: I'd give it a B+. Sergachev is good but he's never going to be in the Norris conversation either.
2019: Also a B+. Like Sergachev, Caufield is good but he's not elite and never will be.

So for me, the only "A's" are 2005 (and only because of Price. the rest were all garbage picks) and 2007. But overall way too many "D's" and "F's" to remain employed for as long as he did.
 
lecoqsportif said:
Except GGpX said “shitshow we have in Montreal right now” - it wasn’t an evaluation of TT’s overall record. Let’s take a portion of your list:

2009 : F - Leblanc over Kreider
2010 : B - Only 5 picks, missed on Tinordi but got Gallagher
2011 : D - Just Beaulieu, but wasn't that great of a draft
2012 : C - We drafted Galchenyuk where he was ranked, it was a pretty bad cuvee overall
2013 : C - McCarron was an horrible mistake but Lehkonen was a find in a pretty bad draft year
2014 : D - Not that much after Sherbak at 26th, Evans salvages it from a F
2015 : D - Juulsen wasn't that bad of a pick, got derailed by injuries. But overall a miss
2016 : A - Sergachev was one of the best pick of that draft
2017 : D - Poehling at 25th, not a great draft year overall. Got Primeau in the 7th.
2018 : D - KK was a huge blunder, Romanov and Harris saves it from an F.

So from 2009 to 2017, we’re looking at players who would be 24 to 32 years old. This should be the core of a team. From a team building perspective, this list is catastrophic - with Bergevin responsible for the Sergachev trade.

But our core is a bunch kids, post KK draft picks. Not ideal. We don’t have those 26-30 year olds who should be leading the team. Ours are deadweight.

Simply put, for TT, it’s too little too late. He is responsible for the current shitshow, with an assist to stupid contracts handed out by Bergevin.
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Yeah there was a huge lull from 2008 to 2018. Not forgivable. That being said, he didn't have much to work with. KK being the most obvious failure.

That being said, from 2010 to 2018, the only true moving-the-needle-mistake was done in 2018. Nothing else would have changed much from the state we are now, although a few gems in later rounds would have been nice.
 
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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
2004: I don't see Chipchura, Emelin, Grabovsky and Streit meriting a B. That's a C- at best.
2016: I'd give it a B+. Sergachev is good but he's never going to be in the Norris conversation either.
2019: Also a B+. Like Sergachev, Caufield is good but he's not elite and never will be.

So for me, the only "A's" are 2005 (and only because of Price. the rest were all garbage picks) and 2007. But overall way too many "D's" and "F's" to remain employed for as long as he did.
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I'm ranking based on expectations from where we were picking and who was available. Picking one of the top 3 remaining candidates at our rank is an A in my book. I'm harsher on top 5 picks than I am with later picks. Regardless of your nitpicking, it still doesn't look too good.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
2004: I don't see Chipchura, Emelin, Grabovsky and Streit meriting a B. That's a C- at best.
2016: I'd give it a B+. Sergachev is good but he's never going to be in the Norris conversation either.
2019: Also a B+. Like Sergachev, Caufield is good but he's not elite and never will be.

So for me, the only "A's" are 2005 (and only because of Price. the rest were all garbage picks) and 2007. But overall way too many "D's" and "F's" to remain employed for as long as he did.
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Caufield scored 30 in a season where he had a 6 percent shooting percentage. What are you taking about,
 
Krustchev said:
Caufield scored 30 in a season where he had a 6 percent shooting percentage. What are you taking about,
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Doing something once is not the same as doing it consistently and 30 goal scorers are not "elite". Gallagher scored 30. He's good but he's never been elite. These are examples of "serviceable" players. They are not worthy of an A grade for a draft evaluation. The draft yields lots of serviceable players every year.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Doing something once is not the same as doing it consistently and 30 goal scorers are not "elite". Gallagher scored 30. He's good but he's never been elite. These are examples of "serviceable" players. They are not worthy of an A grade for a draft evaluation. The draft yields lots of serviceable players every year.
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You're missing the point, there isn't a single player drafted after him that has more points or goals. We literally drafted the BPA that year. That's an A.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Doing something once is not the same as doing it consistently and 30 goal scorers are not "elite". Gallagher scored 30. He's good but he's never been elite. These are examples of "serviceable" players. They are not worthy of an A grade for a draft evaluation. The draft yields lots of serviceable players every year.
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Cole Caufied is a "serviceable player?" Stop.

Also, Gallagher in his prime was a very good/productive player, not just "serviceable." Christian Dvorak is serviceable.
 
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