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Around The League - 2024-25 Regular Season

WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
It's the Habs' 21st Century curse.

If we draft first overall, it's a weak draft year.
If we have a lottery pick, the player we need gets drafted just before or just after our turn.
The free agent we need won't play in Montreal
The free agent we need will get a better offer from a US team where there are no state taxes
The player we need in a trade isn't available because we don't have the right assets to offer in return.
The player we want is never within reach so we settle for the player we can get, who is inevitably inferior and doesn't move the needle.
The prospects we draft never live up to the hype.
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So your saying we have a chance

There are no excuses , Habs know their limitations in the market place

There is no cap on an elite regime , scouts or development staff

Execution over the last few decades is 2/10
 
The Hockey Hall of Very Good strikes again:

Goaltenders Henrik Lundqvist, Tom Barrasso and Mike Vernon will be joined by Caroline Ouellette and Pierre Turgeon, as well as Ken Hitchcock and Pierre Lacroix in the builders category.

What an embarassing class of players. Lundqvist & Ouellette, no issue. The rest can fuck right off, man. No offense to 'em.
 
GGpX said:
The Hockey Hall of Very Good strikes again:

Goaltenders Henrik Lundqvist, Tom Barrasso and Mike Vernon will be joined by Caroline Ouellette and Pierre Turgeon, as well as Ken Hitchcock and Pierre Lacroix in the builders category.

What an embarassing class of players. Lundqvist & Ouellette, no issue. The rest can fuck right off, man. No offense to 'em.
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Jebus, the bar gets set lower and lower every year. Barrasso, Vernon and the Tin Man himself. Never mind "very good". This is more like the Hockey Hall of Meh.
 
GEEMAN said:
Its always been the Hall of the very good

Barrasso and Pierre deserve it with their equals getting in
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I agree .. on another note, I was pissed that we traded Pierre for Corson... puke.. that was the last time the Habs were strong down the middle with Pierre, Vinny and Saku
 
The Hallf of Very Good continues to lower the bar.

I always thought, the Hall should be for hockey legends. For all-timers. For a very select few. It's why I revere the baseball & football hall of fame, it's very hard to get in.

Pierre has a fifth place finish in Hart voting, a 21st place finish in Selke voting, two sixth team All Star nominations, two eight team All Star nominations. The fact that he has more than 500 goals and was better than a PPG for his career is to his credit, but those are not enough to let him in.

Pierre Turgeon getting in means Patrick Marleau's a shoe-in, which is fucking hilarious. Random thought, how does Pierre Turgeon get in the HHOF before Keith Tkachuk? Keith Tkachuk's career resume blows Turgeon's out of the water and it's not particularly close either.
 
GGpX said:
The Hallf of Very Good continues to lower the bar.

I always thought, the Hall should be for hockey legends. For all-timers. For a very select few. It's why I revere the baseball & football hall of fame, it's very hard to get in.

Pierre has a fifth place finish in Hart voting, a 21st place finish in Selke voting, two sixth team All Star nominations, two eight team All Star nominations. The fact that he has more than 500 goals and was better than a PPG for his career is to his credit, but those are not enough to let him in.

Pierre Turgeon getting in means Patrick Marleau's a shoe-in, which is fucking hilarious. Random thought, how does Pierre Turgeon get in the HHOF before Keith Tkachuk? Keith Tkachuk's career resume blows Turgeon's out of the water and it's not particularly close either.
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How? By virtue of position only as top LWs are much rarer than center, otherwise Pierre had much better numbers.
 
Turgeon:
-5th place in Hart voting
-21st place in Selke voting
-2x 6th Team All Star
-2x 8th Team All Star
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 6th, 7th, 13th x2, 14th, 17th, 18th. So no top-5 finishes in scoring, two top-10 in scoring, 7 top-20 in scoring.
-Not much playoff success
-No international hockey participations

Tkachuk:
-10th in Hart voting, 14th in Hart voting
-17th in Selke voting, 41st in Selke voting
-2x Second Team All Star
-2x Third Team All Star
-2x Fourth Team All Star
-2x Fifth Team All Star
-2x Sixth Team All Star
*Note: He was voted third team at LW & sixth team at RW in the 1995-1996 season
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th. So no top-5 in scoring, no top-10 in scoring, 5 top-20 in scoring.
-Like Turgeon, not much playoff success.
-Not really quantifiable in numbers, but Tkachuk was one of the premier power forwards of the 90s/early 2000s.
-A lot of international hockey representations with USA, including multiple Olympic Games, and was on the winning America team during the 1996 World Cup

In 9 of his 18 seasons, Tkachuk was considered, at worst, the 6th best player in the NHL in his position. In comparison, Turgeon in 20 years was only considered at least the 8th best player in his position four times.

Turgeon had a slightly longer career and had better numbers. Both had fringe Selke votes in the odd years, doesn't mean much for either.

So, for me, while Turgeon played a tougher and more valuable position, and if you were to compare both of their best seasons (Turgeon in 92-93, Tkachuk in 95-6), Turgeon had the better peak. However, if I look at the totality of their careers, Tkachuk did more for a longer period of time than Turgeon did. Turgeon also carried the reputation of being very soft, whether that was warranted or not.

To me, neither of them should be in the Hall. But I think Tkachuk's argument to get in is much stronger than Turgeon's.
 
GGpX said:
Turgeon:
-5th place in Hart voting
-21st place in Selke voting
-2x 6th Team All Star
-2x 8th Team All Star
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 6th, 7th, 13th x2, 14th, 17th, 18th. So no top-5 finishes in scoring, two top-10 in scoring, 7 top-20 in scoring.
-Not much playoff success
-No international hockey participations

Tkachuk:
-10th in Hart voting, 14th in Hart voting
-17th in Selke voting, 41st in Selke voting
-2x Second Team All Star
-2x Third Team All Star
-2x Fourth Team All Star
-2x Fifth Team All Star
-2x Sixth Team All Star
*Note: He was voted third team at LW & sixth team at RW in the 1995-1996 season
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th. So no top-5 in scoring, no top-10 in scoring, 5 top-20 in scoring.
-Like Turgeon, not much playoff success.
-Not really quantifiable in numbers, but Tkachuk was one of the premier power forwards of the 90s/early 2000s.
-A lot of international hockey representations with USA, including multiple Olympic Games, and was on the winning America team during the 1996 World Cup

In 9 of his 18 seasons, Tkachuk was considered, at worst, the 6th best player in the NHL in his position. In comparison, Turgeon in 20 years was only considered at least the 8th best player in his position four times.

Turgeon had a slightly longer career and had better numbers. Both had fringe Selke votes in the odd years, doesn't mean much for either.

So, for me, while Turgeon played a tougher and more valuable position, and if you were to compare both of their best seasons (Turgeon in 92-93, Tkachuk in 95-6), Turgeon had the better peak. However, if I look at the totality of their careers, Tkachuk did more for a longer period of time than Turgeon did. Turgeon also carried the reputation of being very soft, whether that was warranted or not.

To me, neither of them should be in the Hall. But I think Tkachuk's argument to get in is much stronger than Turgeon's.
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6th and 8th team All star ? WTF league went past 3rd team ?
 
GEEMAN said:
6th and 8th team All star ? WTF league went past 3rd team ?
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Basically, at the end of the year when the people voting on who was the best LW, C, RW, etc in the league were, they count up votes and they see in what place you ended up. Tkachuk got some votes and ended up as the 6th best at his position twice & eight best twice.

There aren't actual "all star teams".
 
Pierre Turgeon is a complete class act, one of the best guy to ever lace em up, he maintained above ppg for 1200 games. Maybe he doesn't deserve it, but I cant get mad at someone like him getting in.
 
GGpX said:
The Hallf of Very Good continues to lower the bar.

I always thought, the Hall should be for hockey legends. For all-timers. For a very select few. It's why I revere the baseball & football hall of fame, it's very hard to get in.

Pierre has a fifth place finish in Hart voting, a 21st place finish in Selke voting, two sixth team All Star nominations, two eight team All Star nominations. The fact that he has more than 500 goals and was better than a PPG for his career is to his credit, but those are not enough to let him in.

Pierre Turgeon getting in means Patrick Marleau's a shoe-in, which is fucking hilarious. Random thought, how does Pierre Turgeon get in the HHOF before Keith Tkachuk? Keith Tkachuk's career resume blows Turgeon's out of the water and it's not particularly close either.
Click to expand...
Exactly. A player who had to wear the nickname "The Tin Man" due to his infamous lack of intestinal fortitude is getting in because he accumulated points but never led his team to a fucking thing that mattered. And of course Marleau will now also get in despite the fact that he was stripped of his captaincy because he was a garbage leader. Marleau also accumulated points but his teams, despite a lot of hype, never won a fucking thing either. All these two players ever did was underachieve while scoring points which ultimately amounted to nothing. No player who's career was dogged from beginning to end by accusations that they lacked heart and guts the way those two were should ever get into the HHOF.
 
GGpX said:
Turgeon:
-5th place in Hart voting
-21st place in Selke voting
-2x 6th Team All Star
-2x 8th Team All Star
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 6th, 7th, 13th x2, 14th, 17th, 18th. So no top-5 finishes in scoring, two top-10 in scoring, 7 top-20 in scoring.
-Not much playoff success
-No international hockey participations

Tkachuk:
-10th in Hart voting, 14th in Hart voting
-17th in Selke voting, 41st in Selke voting
-2x Second Team All Star
-2x Third Team All Star
-2x Fourth Team All Star
-2x Fifth Team All Star
-2x Sixth Team All Star
*Note: He was voted third team at LW & sixth team at RW in the 1995-1996 season
-Highest he ever placed in NHL scoring was 12th, 13th, 14th, 15th, 19th. So no top-5 in scoring, no top-10 in scoring, 5 top-20 in scoring.
-Like Turgeon, not much playoff success.
-Not really quantifiable in numbers, but Tkachuk was one of the premier power forwards of the 90s/early 2000s.
-A lot of international hockey representations with USA, including multiple Olympic Games, and was on the winning America team during the 1996 World Cup

In 9 of his 18 seasons, Tkachuk was considered, at worst, the 6th best player in the NHL in his position. In comparison, Turgeon in 20 years was only considered at least the 8th best player in his position four times.

Turgeon had a slightly longer career and had better numbers. Both had fringe Selke votes in the odd years, doesn't mean much for either.

So, for me, while Turgeon played a tougher and more valuable position, and if you were to compare both of their best seasons (Turgeon in 92-93, Tkachuk in 95-6), Turgeon had the better peak. However, if I look at the totality of their careers, Tkachuk did more for a longer period of time than Turgeon did. Turgeon also carried the reputation of being very soft, whether that was warranted or not.

To me, neither of them should be in the Hall. But I think Tkachuk's argument to get in is much stronger than Turgeon's.
Click to expand...

So yes, as I said, by virtue of position. Lots of top centers in the league at that time, not a lot of top LWs, so more all stars for Tkachuk, Pure scoring stats are simply better for Turgeon, Tkachuk wasn't even close to a PPG player during his career.

I also don't think neither should be in the Hall, I just disagree that Tkachuk has a better pedigree. 2 50 goals season for Tkachuk vs one for Turgeon (but 58) and 2 100 pts seasons for Turgeon (including 132), + 3 90pts+ vs only 1 90pts season for Tkachuk. Even Turgeon playoffs numbers were better than Tkachuk (97 pts in 109 games vs 56 pts in 89 games).
 
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