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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

This year more than ever was not a great one for the goalie lovers. And it drilled in the importance of prioritizing your skaters. Stack your d with talented puck movers that can skate. Stack your forwards with pure skill, high octane speed. Your goalie can't be Kallgren and it is sure nice if he performs well, but I'm not noticing much value provided there compared to what a similarly priced stud d or forward brings.
 
GSAx/60

VGK +1.46
NYR +0.94
BOS +0.83
TOR +0.54
FLA +0.45
NSH +0.38
DAL +0.25
CAR +0.21
TBL +0.20
EDM +0.18
VAN +0.14
NYI +0.12
COL +0.10
LAK -0.73
WSH -0.95
WPG -1.27
 
Preston said:
This year more than ever was not a great one for the goalie lovers. And it drilled in the importance of prioritizing your skaters. Stack your d with talented puck movers that can skate. Stack your forwards with pure skill, high octane speed. Your goalie can't be Kallgren and it is sure nice if he performs well, but I'm not noticing much value provided there compared to what a similarly priced stud d or forward brings.
Click to expand...

Except the Leafs lost to Boston in large part because Samsonov was their #1

I’m not saying don’t prioritize stacking talent but there are upgrades on the margin (goaltending being one of them, another was the PP) that could have yielded a much better playoff result
 
CH1 said:
Except the Leafs lost to Boston in large part because Samsonov was their #1

I’m not saying don’t prioritize stacking talent but there are upgrades on the margin (goaltending being one of them, another was the PP) that could have yielded a much better playoff result
Click to expand...
They lost because they didn't score. And yes part of that was because of Swayman being great. But overall Boston was still the better team. And they won. The better team usually wins.

I agree having both is ideal but I'm talking about value and importance to the team. Of course you need at least average goaltending, I'm just not sure how much extra value a .915 goalie brings compared to a .907 one in terms of additional AAV (could cost an extra 4-5m per year on the open market). But the difference between an Edmundson and a Montour or even Roy is enormous. You gett way more bang for your buck imo.. and extra assurance that you know what you're getting whereas goalies are way more volatile.

And the Leafs have limited cap space and may have to choose between grabbing a couple of top 4 d or getting a Zadorov + a highly paid goalie. I choose option A every time.

A highly paid/reputable goalie is worthless if the d still ain't cup caliber. But they can get away with an average goalie if their d is super elite, skilled and mobile!
 
I also choose option A but you have to allow for more options… and not be so binary
 
CH1 said:
I also choose option A but you have to allow for more options… and not be so binary
Click to expand...
If you trade a big contract then absolutely, you can do a lot. But you can't just make money magically appear. They don't have the cash to spend big on d and goaltending. This is the reason management has been so cheap with goaltending for years; their cap structure just never allowed for it without sacrificing some key pieces. And no, it's not the biggest reason they haven't had success.
 
Now in a perfect world Sandin and Liljegren became top four d and you got two studs for cheap locked up for years. But that did not happen. So they must address it in free agency this summer. And that won't be cheap. Forwards are already $$$, d is gonna have to be too.. finding money for goaltending won't be easy unless they trade a Tavares or Marner..
 
The only reason I’m so high on goalie is because of who may be available. Ullmark and Saros are two of the top goalies in the league (with Shesty, Sorokin, Swayman and Hellebucyk). If you can get one of those guys it would be silly not to. I mean they are even on cheap, short term deals.

If the options are Gibson, Marksteom and Talbot then ya, fuck it.
 
And if Woll had one healthy season in his 5 years as a pro then you take his $700k salary as your #1 all day. Lots of big red flags there though. Hard to ignore.
 
My issue with Ullmark and Saros is that you have them for one year and I guess I don't have much hope for crazy roster improvements this year unless they trade Tavares and sign two of the top d free agents (Roy and Skjei, for example). But that's partially because of who the GM is. So you'd be trading assets for a goalie heading into a season where they've got no shot of winning shit.

But yes that is preferable to going long and heavy on a goalie that may be worse than a Broissoit.
 
Preston said:
My issue with Ullmark and Saros is that you have them for one year and I guess I don't have much hope for crazy roster improvements this year unless they trade Tavares and sign two of the top d free agents (Roy and Skjei, for example). But that's partially because of who the GM is. So you'd be trading assets for a goalie heading into a season where they've got no shot of winning shit.

But yes that is preferable to going long and heavy on a goalie that may be worse than a Broissoit.
Click to expand...

Think they have way more cap space than you appreciate:

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (12)
Right Wing: Mitchell Marner ($10,903,000) - William Nylander ($11,500,000) - Bobby McMann ($1,350,000) - Calle Järnkrok ($2,100,000)
Centre: Auston Matthews ($13,250,000) - Pontus Holmberg ($800,000) - John Tavares ($11,000,000) - David Kämpf ($2,400,000)
Left Wing: Matthew Knies ($925,000) - Nicholas Robertson ($1,350,000) - Easton Cowan ($904,667) - Connor Dewar ($800,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Christopher Tanev ($4,500,000) - Jake McCabe ($2,000,000) - Conor Timmins ($1,100,000)
Left: Morgan Rielly ($7,500,000) - Brady Skjei ($7,500,000) - Simon Benoit ($1,350,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Juuse Saros ($5,000,000) - Joseph Woll ($766,667)

BURIED (1)
Ryan Reaves ($200,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $87,700,000
Cap Hit: $87,199,334


Even if they keep Tavares, Marner, Kampf and Krok they can still afford two top 4 D and a top goalie.
Cap Space: $500,666
 
leafman101 said:
Think they have way more cap space than you appreciate:

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (12)
Right Wing: Mitchell Marner ($10,903,000) - William Nylander ($11,500,000) - Bobby McMann ($1,350,000) - Calle Järnkrok ($2,100,000)
Centre: Auston Matthews ($13,250,000) - Pontus Holmberg ($800,000) - John Tavares ($11,000,000) - David Kämpf ($2,400,000)
Left Wing: Matthew Knies ($925,000) - Nicholas Robertson ($1,350,000) - Easton Cowan ($904,667) - Connor Dewar ($800,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Christopher Tanev ($4,500,000) - Jake McCabe ($2,000,000) - Conor Timmins ($1,100,000)
Left: Morgan Rielly ($7,500,000) - Brady Skjei ($7,500,000) - Simon Benoit ($1,350,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Juuse Saros ($5,000,000) - Joseph Woll ($766,667)

BURIED (1)
Ryan Reaves ($200,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $87,700,000
Cap Hit: $87,199,334


Even if they keep Tavares, Marner, Kampf and Krok they can still afford two top 4 D and a top goalie.
Cap Space: $500,666
Click to expand...
"But that's partially because of who the GM is."

I think we'd mostly all do a great job but I don't think he will. There is no room for dumb signings and Tre is bound to make at least 1 or 2 of them that will eat up cap space. They won't get 2 top 4 d if they get a $5m goalie too. I would be a lot of money on that.
 
Preston said:
"But that's partially because of who the GM is."

I think we'd mostly all do a great job but I don't think he will. There is no room for dumb signings and Tre is bound to make at least 1 or 2 of them that will eat up cap space. They won't get 2 top 4 d if they get a $5m goalie too. I would be a lot of money on that.
Click to expand...

And its too bad because its super easy to make the Leafs good this year with the D and depth forward UFA class and potentially elite goalies available.
 
Preston said:
This year more than ever was not a great one for the goalie lovers. And it drilled in the importance of prioritizing your skaters. Stack your d with talented puck movers that can skate. Stack your forwards with pure skill, high octane speed. Your goalie can't be Kallgren and it is sure nice if he performs well, but I'm not noticing much value provided there compared to what a similarly priced stud d or forward brings.
Click to expand...


LOF:

CA517025-D2AA-4264-8605-8222572106AE.jpeg
 
leafman101 said:
Think they have way more cap space than you appreciate:

CapFriendly.com Armchair-GM User-Generated Roster

FORWARDS (12)
Right Wing: Mitchell Marner ($10,903,000) - William Nylander ($11,500,000) - Bobby McMann ($1,350,000) - Calle Järnkrok ($2,100,000)
Centre: Auston Matthews ($13,250,000) - Pontus Holmberg ($800,000) - John Tavares ($11,000,000) - David Kämpf ($2,400,000)
Left Wing: Matthew Knies ($925,000) - Nicholas Robertson ($1,350,000) - Easton Cowan ($904,667) - Connor Dewar ($800,000)

DEFENSE (6)
Right: Christopher Tanev ($4,500,000) - Jake McCabe ($2,000,000) - Conor Timmins ($1,100,000)
Left: Morgan Rielly ($7,500,000) - Brady Skjei ($7,500,000) - Simon Benoit ($1,350,000)

GOALTENDER (2)
Juuse Saros ($5,000,000) - Joseph Woll ($766,667)

BURIED (1)
Ryan Reaves ($200,000)

DETAILS
Roster Size: 20
Salary Cap: $87,700,000
Cap Hit: $87,199,334


Even if they keep Tavares, Marner, Kampf and Krok they can still afford two top 4 D and a top goalie.
Cap Space: $500,666
Click to expand...
Or, to put it another way, $25M if they do dump Kampf and Krok.
 
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