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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

MindzEye said:
Timmy struggled this year, no argument.

But we were clearly playing a style that favoured plugs and wasn't about moving the puck efficiently. I don't think it should shock anyone that both Rielly and Lilly struggled in a series where the game plan was to win 2-1 every night. Rielly has been a fucking animal in every playoff series we've had in this era until this year. I don't think that's accidental. We prioritized guys who chased the puck around making the other team miserable, not moving it efficiently up ice.
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Yeah it's for sure interesting how much that ugly system consistently elevates tree bitch plugs that are unplayable elsewhere.

Now I don't want to use that as an excuse for Timmy. He has to be better, no questions asked. But you can't ignore it either.
 
2 really good D plus Edmundson is probably a soft win tbh

If you can get Perron for less money and years than Bertuzzi thats probably okay IMO
 
Preston said:
Yeah it's for sure interesting how much that ugly system consistently elevates tree bitch plugs that are unplayable elsewhere.

Now I don't want to use that as an excuse for Timmy. He has to be better, no questions asked. But you can't ignore it either.
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As an organization you either have to make a choice to be patient with developing young talent or not. Every spring can't be a "perform or fuck off" thing. He wasn't a stud in 2023 in the playoffs, but by the numbers he functioned just fine (it was the veterans Gio-Holl-McCabe that were abysmal, not him) so it's not like this is a continuation of ongoing playoff ineptitude.
 
Preston said:
Yeah it's for sure interesting how much that ugly system consistently elevates tree bitch plugs that are unplayable elsewhere.

Now I don't want to use that as an excuse for Timmy. He has to be better, no questions asked. But you can't ignore it either.
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Timmy's play was not up to snuff towards the end of the year and into the playoffs, no question.

But there's enough noise that it gives me reason to believe he's not a lost cause yet, and far from it. I get that we're in a challenging spot this year cause we need to compete and tough to have an aspirational top-4, but it would be idiotic to bail on him now when his value has plummeted due in large part to the previous coach's treatment of him.

or, in its most concise form, I want to see how Timmy performs under a new coach before we decide he's not a top-4 guy moving forward
 
MindzEye said:
As an organization you either have to make a choice to be patient with developing young talent or not. Every spring can't be a "perform or fuck off" thing. He wasn't a stud in 2023 in the playoffs, but by the numbers he functioned just fine (it was the veterans Gio-Holl-McCabe that were abysmal, not him) so it's not like this is a continuation of ongoing playoff ineptitude.
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and that ignores how he was fucked with mentally from the deadline onwards. reward for stepping up when Mo was out and handling top-4 duty was becoming a healthy scratch so we could play our other 9 d-men.
 
Timmy clearly has all the tools. the biggest question is the brain tool. given the physical tools, I'm willing to be patient and see if his brain can catch up, and stay there.
 
Fwiw, every move we've made to bring in veteran leadership has been a flop at this point. If we want to trace our problems back to a core philosophical problem it's in the unwillingness to trust the organization to develop it's own players, and an impatience with those players when they get here.
 
Wayward DP said:
Timmy clearly has all the tools. the biggest question is the brain tool. given the physical tools, I'm willing to be patient and see if his brain can catch up, and stay there.
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It's funny how whenever you see young guys break out they usually talk about how they were given a defined role and excelled in it. Nobody outside the top few guys and coaches pets ever get a defined role here to grow into. It's always just throwing them around the lineup as needed like spare parts to solve problems of the coaches imaginings. It shouldn't surprise anyone that he played his best hockey when Keefe told him "you're Morgan Rielly, go be Morgan Rielly".
 
MindzEye said:
As an organization you either have to make a choice to be patient with developing young talent or not. Every spring can't be a "perform or fuck off" thing. He wasn't a stud in 2023 in the playoffs, but by the numbers he functioned just fine (it was the veterans Gio-Holl-McCabe that were abysmal, not him) so it's not like this is a continuation of ongoing playoff ineptitude.
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Don't think we disagree much here. I just have a lower opinion of him than I had of him around 15 months ago. Don't want to dump him for nothing but also don't love ignoring two straight years of him falling off a cliff either.
 
Preston said:
Don't think we disagree much here. I just have a lower opinion of him than I had of him around 15 months ago. Don't want to dump him for nothing but also don't love ignoring two straight years of him falling off a cliff either.
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But you're wrong about him falling off of a cliff two years in a row. He had a 52% xG, 54% GF after the deadline last year and a 49.9% xG in the playoffs. That's not falling off of a cliff.

This is part of the problem I'm talking about. No patience with young players.
 
MindzEye said:
But you're wrong about him falling off of a cliff two years in a row. He had a 52% xG, 54% GF after the deadline last year and a 49.9% xG in the playoffs. That's not falling off of a cliff.

This is part of the problem I'm talking about. No patience with young players.
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Nah he definitely fell off a cliff. But it's ok I still wouldn't dump him for nothing
 
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