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Core 4 No More: The Motherfucking Off-Season Thread

Preston said:
The only thing I want to know is how much time Matthews is gonna miss next season from his surgery. The rest will be loser comments from people that hopefully will be fired and/or traded soon.
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For you guys, I am hoping that those about to get fired never get a chance to speak
 
LeafGm said:
I’m convinced that any number of Marlies on NHL minimum deals could be called up, given Krok & Kampf’s ice-time and opportunity and at minimum, be no worse than either of those guys.

So it’s stupid to keep them around for that reason alone. And also because they’re vestigial remnants of Dubas’s fetish for pillow-soft, milquetoast low-event depth players.
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and they're clearly shelly's comfort blankets
 
zeke said:
The general idea that we should be getting rid of our best players for anything other than elite talent in return still makes me sick.

Other than tavares of course.

But we still have always wasted worse money on depth players than our stars.
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Changing coaches would be first step, NHL caliber coach can find the way utilizing pros and cons of players given to him
Second step is goalie
 
CRL said:
Changing coaches would be first step, NHL caliber coach can find the way utilizing pros and cons of players given to him
Second step is goalie
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I think the personnel handed to the shit coach is more concerning than the shit coach, tbqh.

You might see some changes from a decent coach, like, less 4th line, but i think the core issues will be still glaring.
 
ESPECIALLY since this is finally the first year the cap goes up for real since when we first signed tavares
 
zeke said:
It's still so fucking perfect that we score a go ahead goal with 10 minutes left in game 7 and our fucking coach immediately puts out a line featuring noah fucking gregor

We so so deserved to lose
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don't forget the sammy special, too
 
zeke said:
The general idea that we should be getting rid of our best players for anything other than elite talent in return still makes me sick.

Other than tavares of course.
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I hate it too. But where Marner is concerned, the clock ran out on our ability to do anything else with him last summer when we didn't trade him before his NMC kicked in.

Now we just have a bunch of bad choices left.

  1. Trade him for a return that'll be diminished by his playoff performance, his pending UFA status and the fact that his NMC fully allows him to dictate where he's moved.

  2. Re-sign him long term for an AAV somewhere between $12.5-13.25M.

  3. Keep him for next season and then let him walk as a UFA for nothing.

zeke said:
But we still have always wasted worse money on depth players than our stars.
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100%. Any discussion about "you can't pay 4 forwards $40M+ and win" isn't entirely honest unless it acknowledges the fact that we spent $10M--a cap hit equivalent to an additional star-level forward or defenseman---on Klingberg, Reaves, Jarnkrok & Kampf.

You could arguably add in the $5M for Brodie into the "cap mismanagement" category too, since it became apparent pretty early on this season that he was basically unplayable. Dump him and you could've added a Noah Hanifin with zero salary retention.
 
LeafGm said:
100%. Any discussion about "you can't pay 4 forwards $40M+ and win" isn't entirely honest unless it acknowledges the fact that we spent $10M--a cap hit equivalent to an additional star-level forward or defenseman---on Klingberg, Reaves, Jarnkrok & Kampf.
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It should have been: "We can and we will not pay scrubs market FA rates".
 
Yeah, as much as I'm on the "trade Marner if you can" bus, I think we can make it work without trading Marner if push comes to shove and there is just no value there. But we have to do a few other things:

- JT has to go, and preferably for as much straight cap savings as possible. I would really, really try to make a deal with Utah work just because of their ability to take on capspace. I'd seriously consider trying to get something like Bjugstad + Crouse out of them and take that dead Shea Weber LTIR money off of their books if necessary. This type of move could/should save 3-5 million. I'm honestly not sure what John is going to be worth in the open market, but I imagine he's worth more to a team in a new city looking for faces, and leadership for it's young guys.

- Of our UFA's, I'm interested in Bert and Tie back at similar cap hits. Brodie is cooked and unfortunately time to go. Eddy and Boosh need to go elsewhere, and unfortunately it's the end for Gio. Gio deserved better here.

- Samsonov, Kampf, Jarnkrok and their combined 8 million need to fuck off. Trade for a goalie (Saros, Ullmark, or heaven forbid Sorokin is available) and then fill the other two slots internally. With both Saros & Ullmark entering the final year of their deals, I think there's a discount to be had and we're able to keep our 1st (this year or 2026's)

- We need at least, at least one defender in free agency (Montour/Pesce/Roy/Skjei/Walker).

Matt Roy is a bit of a nerdies god, but it looks like he handled secondary matchups and Doughty did most of the heavies. Roy doesn't look like he was sheltered at all though and he does all that angry hitting and shot blocking stuff. Wouldn't mind seeing his entry/exit numbers. Also right handed, which would keep Lilly and McCabe slotted properly if he was the guy.

Skjei handled the heavies over Pesce in Carolina, but both were real gud

Montour is more of a Rielly than what we need.

Walker actually has pretty roughly looking defensive numbers in Colorado since the trade. He's handling their heavies, but is a bit underwater in them. Might be a red flag to keep an eye on.

If the money is there though, I think Skjei+Roy would be the way to go. If I was forced to pick one, probably Skjei. He's been good, and in heavy lifting, for a few years now.
 
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MindzEye said:
Yeah, as much as I'm on the "trade Marner if you can" bus, I think we can make it work without trading Marner if push comes to shove and there is just no value there. But we have to do a few other things:

- JT has to go, and preferably for as much straight cap savings as possible. I would really, really try to make a deal with Utah work just because of their ability to take on capspace. I'd seriously consider trying to get something like Bjugstad + Crouse out of them and take that dead Shea Weber LTIR money off of their books if necessary. This type of move could/should save 3-5 million. I'm honestly not sure what John is going to be worth in the open market, but I imagine he's worth more to a team in a new city looking for faces, and leadership for it's young guys.

- Of our UFA's, I'm interested in Bert and Tie back at similar cap hits. Brodie is cooked and unfortunately time to go. Eddy and Boosh need to go elsewhere, and unfortunately it's the end for Gio. Gio deserved better here.

- Samsonov, Kampf, Jarnkrok and their combined 8 million need to fuck off. Trade for a goalie (Saros, Ullmark, or heaven forbid Sorokin is available) and then fill the other two slots internally. With both Saros & Ullmark entering the final year of their deals, I think there's a discount to be had and we're able to keep our 1st (this year or 2026's)

- We need at least, at least one defender in free agency (Montour/Pesce/Roy/Skjei).

Matt Roy is a bit of a nerdies god, but it looks like he handled secondary matchups and Doughty did most of the heavies. Roy doesn't look like he was sheltered at all though and he does all that angry hitting and shot blocking stuff. Wouldn't mind seeing his entry/exit numbers. Also right handed, which would keep Lilly and McCabe slotted properly if he was the guy.
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Im not convinced the current FO does any of this, at least the major stuff

Im almost positive they liked what Edmontonbushkin gave them and will bring back one, and i keep banging the Zadorov drum, but reverse glasses tried to trade for him.
 
MindzEye said:
Yeah, as much as I'm on the "trade Marner if you can" bus, I think we can make it work without trading Marner if push comes to shove and there is just no value there. But we have to do a few other things:
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So if you aren't trading Marner, which path do you choose?

Re-sign him for $12.5M+ per season, or keep him for next season & let him walk as a UFA?
 
I think you try to trade him pretty aggressively and it's tough for me to say that. Even with my emotions dying down I feel like you need to move on from him and reallocate some of that money to a stud d or two. I get that they've wasted money on trash depth but every team needs some grace and room for a couple mistake contracts. No team is perfect. And if anything they've shied away from acquiring more elite talent because of their cap structure. Probably too much, but they've passed up some elite d in order to keep the band together and I think that was a mistake.

But I only say that because I'm pretty positive they'll be able to get excellent value for him and/or they should be able to identify a player that isn't valued as highly as he should be. The NMC is a non factor for me.

Of course this depends on a smart gm and not Tre making the trade. Which is a pipe dream.
 
IMO they need to add the two best dmen they can get. And one of them should be able to create offense. Love Roy, but adding one 20 point defensive stud isn’t enough.

And I’d follow the Canes model. Just be flexible and get the best players you can for the most reasonable value by actually using your analytics department.
 
I don’t think it’s nearly as hard to trade a guy like Marner and get value as people are pretending. He’s awesome and it’s hard to get players like that in their prime.

Just gotta find the right team that has a lot of D but needs a forward like the Byram/Middlestat trade. Is Carolina going to resign Slavin. Would Buffalo trade Power? Would Anaheim move Minunyuk or Zellweger? Teams will want Marner.

And if that trade isn’t there then you keep him. I don’t really see any other choice.
 
We do have plenty of capspace to sign two very good dmen.

I don't know skjei and pesce are that, but maybe.
 
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