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Habs Season Thread: 2024-25 Regular Season

GEEMAN said:
Try harder to read
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It hurt mine also. JC had a very good playoffs but he wasn't a beast (at least by my definition)... maybe the term "beast" is throwing me off as i am trying to understand your point.. so is it points that make him a beast or his overall play.. if it is points then that pokes holes in your beast tag, toughness? defensive awareness?
 
legoalie said:
It hurt mine also. JC had a very good playoffs but he wasn't a beast (at least by my definition)... maybe the term "beast" is throwing me off as i am trying to understand your point.. so is it points that make him a beast or his overall play.. if it is points then that pokes holes in your beast tag, toughness? defensive awareness?
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He had an outstanding regular season and a dominant playoffs with 20 points

He was great at both ends of the rink
 
GEEMAN said:
There are multiple levels of talent

Franchise D are Hedman , Josi types

JC has been a 1D for many years , and he was a fucken beast that year and the playoffs

He continued playing well since then and is more than just an offensive D

Hughes is an offensive D but pure trash defending , JC is a better player

Then you have your , " I got nothing else so he is my 1D or 1C by default types " all over the league
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Exactly. Just because he's your team's #1 defenseman doesn't mean he's a #1 defenseman in the real world. It's like when the Habs stupidly paid Stephane Quintal the then unheard of sum of $2 million/year. They thought that by paying him the kind of money that elite defensemen were being paid at the time that he would suddenly become elite himself. Needless to say, Quintal didn't change. He was the same mediocre defenseman he was before. The only thing that had changed was that he was now a grossly overpaid mediocrity.

Right now, Suzuki is the Habs' #1 center just like years ago Saku Koivu was the Habs' #1 center. But neither of them are #1 centers on a good team. If either of them are your #1 center your team isn't good enough. It's not a knock against the player, it's just reality. The Oilers would laugh you out of the room if you suggested a one for one trade for McDavid or Draisaitl. The Avs might be willing to talk to you about Evan Rodriguez for Suzuki but certainly not McKinnon. Tampa might trade you Nick Paul for him but forget about Point. Suzuki is good, very very good. But on a Cup contender he is not and cannot be your #1 pivot any more than Koivu could back in the day. Suzuki is easily the best center we've had since Koivu, but that doesn't mean he's elite.
 
Suzuki could be a #1C like Damphousse, though, while Guhle could be a #1D like at a Desjardins/Schneider level (yes, we'd still be missing the first ballot HOFer goalie)
 
GEEMAN said:
Luv the kid , but he needs to put up more points offensively to be a 1D
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7 points in his first 15 games is pretty darn good. I don't think he'll ever be a puck mover but he's going to be efficient supporting the offense without sacrificing the defense. I see him getting 40-50 points a year, which is really good.
 
GEEMAN said:
He had an outstanding regular season and a dominant playoffs with 20 points

He was great at both ends of the rink
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O
GEEMAN said:
He had an outstanding regular season and a dominant playoffs with 20 points

He was great at both ends of the rink
Click to expand...
JC got most of his points against the Jackets in the 1st round.. His season was very good but not his best..Orlov-Niskanen were the Caps best defensive pair in the playoffs.. is Erik Karlsson a beast as he is leading all D-men in points this year? Danault was a "beast " in the playoffs was he not? He is surely not a 1C.. I just do not agree with your assessment on what a # 1 d or 1c should be.. a # 1d or 1c without good wingmen does you no good.. so IMO, to win a cup you need talent spread out on the top two lines, you need your 3rd and 4th lines to be heros on certain nights, you need your D to play hard in their zone, and of course timely saves..and add in more good bounces than bad..
 
GrandWazoo said:
7 points in his first 15 games is pretty darn good. I don't think he'll ever be a puck mover but he's going to be efficient supporting the offense without sacrificing the defense. I see him getting 40-50 points a year, which is really good.
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If he gets 50 points a year, thats incredible

A more mobile McDonough is great too
 
legoalie said:
O

JC got most of his points against the Jackets in the 1st round.. His season was very good but not his best..Orlov-Niskanen were the Caps best defensive pair in the playoffs.. is Erik Karlsson a beast as he is leading all D-men in points this year? Danault was a "beast " in the playoffs was he not? He is surely not a 1C.. I just do not agree with your assessment on what a # 1 d or 1c should be.. a # 1d or 1c without good wingmen does you no good.. so IMO, to win a cup you need talent spread out on the top two lines, you need your 3rd and 4th lines to be heros on certain nights, you need your D to play hard in their zone, and of course timely saves..and add in more good bounces than bad..
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How many D get 20 points in a playoff season ? Very few forwards get 20 points in a playoff season

Cmon , JC is a 1D not an elite franchise D

You need every ingredient plus a few Fernando Pisani`s for a cup run

But your going nowhere without an elite or great core of a handful of studs

That year JC, Ovy, Kuz, and Backstrom

Dano a beast , gimme a break with 1 goal and leading the team in playoff minutes

He was a solid checking center who is a 3 on team that lucked out with the covid gift
 
This is what happens when there is no uniformity in labels.

What's elite? What's first line? Second line? Top pair?

Pretty sure you'll get quite a bit of variance so maybe you should agree on the metrics first?
 
GEEMAN said:
How many D get 20 points in a playoff season ? Very few forwards get 20 points in a playoff season

Cmon , JC is a 1D not an elite franchise D

You need every ingredient plus a few Fernando Pisani`s for a cup run

But your going nowhere without an elite or great core of a handful of studs

That year JC, Ovy, Kuz, and Backstrom

Dano a beast , gimme a break with 1 goal and leading the team in playoff minutes

He was a solid checking center who is a 3 on team that lucked out with the covid gift
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But Dano was a "beast" , you can be a "beast" as a shut down centre, (at least in my view) , do you think Gainey or Carbo were not beasts? Dano had a career year last year (pts) and is on pace to repeat it.. could it be also be the system? You can't paint one teams players as beast and not look at it with the same brush when you look at our players..
 
GEEMAN said:
How many D get 20 points in a playoff season ? Very few forwards get 20 points in a playoff season

Cmon , JC is a 1D not an elite franchise D

You need every ingredient plus a few Fernando Pisani`s for a cup run

But your going nowhere without an elite or great core of a handful of studs

That year JC, Ovy, Kuz, and Backstrom

Dano a beast , gimme a break with 1 goal and leading the team in playoff minutes

He was a solid checking center who is a 3 on team that lucked out with the covid gift
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Not 20 pts but 18 with the Sens and 16 with the Sharks.. first d-man i thought of.. Erik Karlsson and he played less games than JC on both accounts.. regards
 
Habsy said:
His metric is personal preference
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i know, i am just rattling his cage.. Geeman is a smart hockey dude but has a hard time with the Habs, it makes me wonder why he cheers for them.. if i was going define a hockey player as a "beast", it is Bob Gainey
 
legoalie said:
But Dano was a "beast" , you can be a "beast" as a shut down centre, (at least in my view) , do you think Gainey or Carbo were not beasts? Dano had a career year last year (pts) and is on pace to repeat it.. could it be also be the system? You can't paint one teams players as beast and not look at it with the same brush when you look at our players..
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Name me 1 player that will ever go to the finals as your 1C with 1 goal in 20+ games playing 21 minutes a night

You think Boston wins a cup with Bergeron with 1 goal , the putrid offensive output on our top 6 will never be duplicated again in a normal 82 game season
 
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