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I just don't find a difference in education levels being a big issue. Especially because that has been case for 20 years.

It's an interesting question but we would need to know a ton more things. Cross tabs.

Are educated men swinging right?
Are single men?
Income levels?
Active on Twitter?
What the fuck did Gen X parents do?
Percentage of young men voting more?
Urban?
Burbs?
Race?
Urban?

And is it actually an issue? Swinging right is one thing, going trump is another?
 
hockeylover said:
I think I’ve listed a bunch of reasons in good faith here but I truly think it has more to do with the messages men get from other men than women at all.
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To be super clear, I stated that bit as an "it is what it is". A fact with no judgement attached to it. Women don't owe anyone an excuse for why they do or don't find whoever or whatever suitable to date. Facts are facts though, and that's all I was getting at. So on one end, we're producing young men capable of less, on the other end we're producing women capable of more who aren't willing to accept less than they feel their own attained status is. Again, not women's fault in the least, it just is what it is. Now, our outcome here though is a large and growing cohort of young men who have underachieved (partially due to inequities in the systems they were raised in) and the thing that has historically pacified them (attachment to mates) is less available to them. This is what makes them more susceptible to the messages they get from (financially predatory) men and yes, that further radicalizes them. But it's not the root cause of the problem imo. The root causes look more like 1) fix the gender biases in primary education that a small mountain of research has shown to exist & 2) Strengthen union membership. Union jobs were always the levelling feature that allowed for young men who weren't suitable for higher education to still earn excellent money in the trades, or at minimum good and stable money in other union jobs

That's probably the lower hanging fruit, with free post secondary education being the end goal but more expensive and unlikely.
 
MindzEye said:
To be super clear, I stated that bit as an "it is what it is". A fact with no judgement attached to it. Women don't owe anyone an excuse for why they do or don't find whoever or whatever suitable to date. Facts are facts though, and that's all I was getting at. So on one end, we're producing young men capable of less, on the other end we're producing women capable of more who aren't willing to accept less than they feel their own attained status is. Again, not women's fault in the least, it just is what it is. Now, our outcome here though is a large and growing cohort of young men who have underachieved (partially due to inequities in the systems they were raised in) and the thing that has historically pacified them (attachment to mates) is less available to them. This is what makes them more susceptible to the messages they get from (financially predatory) men and yes, that further radicalizes them. But it's not the root cause of the problem imo. The root causes look more like 1) fix the gender biases in primary education that a small mountain of research has shown to exist & 2) Strengthen union membership. Union jobs were always the levelling feature that allowed for young men who weren't suitable for higher education to still earn excellent money in the trades, or at minimum good and stable money in other union jobs

That's probably the lower hanging fruit, with free post secondary education being the end goal but more expensive and unlikely.
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Unions are the devil though. Just ask Amazon.
 
Personally I think it’s just that young men are struggling emotionally after the pandemic, their emotions manifest as anger and the right wing harnesses that better.
 
hockeylover said:
Personally I think it’s just that young men are struggling emotionally after the pandemic, their emotions manifest as anger and the right wing harnesses that better.
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I think it is simpler. They saw the previous generation of men have privledge and want the same. Perceived or real though...
 
worm said:
I just don't find a difference in education levels being a big issue. Especially because that has been case for 20 years.
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Eh, I think your undervaluing the shift within the numbers. Women used to take "easier" degrees at higher proportions than they do now and the advanced degree split has aligned with the 4 year split over the last ~10 years. Law school, masters degrees, medical schools. It's just over the last 10 years that we've seen parity and now ~58% female

and education can't be looked at in a vacuum, it's just the most reliable X=Y in terms of future earnings so I went in that direction. It's all part of overall financial attainment and the "women don't want to date down" bit, which is a pretty big factor in keeping young men from losing the plot imo.

worm said:
Are educated men swinging right?
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Our last good data point is the US election, and no.

worm said:
Are single men?
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sure looks like it

worm said:
Income levels?
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Lower income swinging right, moderate income (100K+) falling on the side of "don't tear it all to the fucking ground". We kind of have to remember that this right/left divide isn't our parent's L/R divide. It's a "the system is working fine, just needs some tweaks" vs "fuck you, fuck everything, let it burn"
 
worm said:
I think it is simpler. They saw the previous generation of men have privledge and want the same. Perceived or real though...
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Privilege or just a decent life? For a lot of these guys, a good career, a home, a wife and kids feels unattainable.
 
hockeylover said:
I know your posting history so I don’t think that was your intention, but yea the post kinda implies young men are fucked because women won’t date down.
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Men who would blame others for their poor circumstances rather than getting their shit together are fucked because why the hell should women have to settle for mediocrity? To make these losers feel better?

Unfortunately, the Tate's and Rogan's of the world have these guys convinced that the key to them getting laid isn't to look in the mirror and do better, but to punish women for achievement and take away their freedom so they are forced to settle for these mediocre men.
 
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hockeylover said:
I think I’ve listed a bunch of reasons in good faith here but I truly think it has more to do with the messages men get from other men than women at all.
Click to expand...
Agreed

And the message they're getting from men like Tate is "It's not your fault you can't get laid. It's because these friggin' women with their feminist beliefs are stuck up bitches who won't put out. So we need to get back to the good old days when they were made to obey the men."
 
I've missed pages of this but one of the problems is young men are still told they need to ve the providers of the family, to take care of everyone and everything and no have any stress impact them.

This means a woman who makes more intimidates them, saying "no a big family costs more than I can provide for" etc.

Women being educated isn't a problem (it make make them less willing to date idiots) but the lack of men being pushed to higher education is a problem.
 
hockeylover said:
Personally I think it’s just that young men are struggling emotionally after the pandemic, their emotions manifest as anger and the right wing harnesses that better.
Click to expand...
Young men were causing mass shootings and raping with impunity long before covid. This trend is not new and young people of both sexes have become increasingly isolated ever since smartphones and social media became a thing. Young people don't interact in person anymore. Everything is online and no one leaves the house. Again, that was the case long before Covid.
 
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