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No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

LeafGm said:
David Kampf - 4 years @ $2.4M
Ryan Reaves - 3 years @ $1.35M
Deryk Engelland* - 3 years @ 2.92M
Mason Raymond - 3 years @ $3.15M
Derek Ryan - 3 years @ $3.125M


*Engelland’s a defenseman, but same idea. Bottom-pairing scrub locked up for term & real money. I guess he was Calgary’s version of Reaves.

And I’ll admit that he didn’t have as many of these in Calgary as I thought he did. But the list above is still putrid enough.
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Brouwer
 
2yr stats

W M.Raymond (29, VAN/TOR): 128gms, 16:48, 19gl/43pt pace
C D.Ryan (32, CAR): 147gms, 15:17, 15gl/37pt pace
C S.Kampf (29, TOR): 164gms, 15:17, 9gl/27pt pace

D D.Engelland (32, PIT): 98gms, 13:25, 5gls/15pts pace



I'll give you Engelland. That's a bizarre one.

I still blame Kampf on Keefe pretending that he was a dominant defensive 3C for 2yrs tho.

Ryan was a legit very good 2 way 3C at the time tho, and Raymond a speedy middle six winger.
 
axlsalinger said:

View: https://x.com/dalter/status/1848385888322990505
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Let's just hope that the 4th line looks significantly better with Holmberg there. Then our Reaves nightmare might be over.

Because as always, a leafs coach seems to want to build his forward lines around what the all important 4th line looks like.

It would also help if Patches-Tavares-Robertson could look like a dangerous 3rd line. It's not much to ask from 3 guys with 1st line offensive skill tbh.
 
zeke said:
2yr stats

W M.Raymond (29, VAN/TOR): 128gms, 16:48, 19gl/43pt pace
C D.Ryan (32, CAR): 147gms, 15:17, 15gl/37pt pace
C S.Kampf (29, TOR): 164gms, 15:17, 9gl/27pt pace

D D.Engelland (32, PIT): 98gms, 13:25, 5gls/15pts pace



I'll give you Engelland. That's a bizarre one.

I still blame Kampf on Keefe pretending that he was a dominant defensive 3C for 2yrs tho.

Ryan was a legit very good 2 way 3C at the time tho, and Raymond a speedy middle six winger.
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If Treliving had dumped Kampf like he should have this summer, I’d have been willing to go along with the idea that his contract could largely be blamed on Keefe. But since Treliving signed the deal and has doubled-down on it again this season, he owns it. No blaming Keefe anymore.

We’ll have to agree disagree on Ryan. I think he’s the very definition of a middling, replaceable bottom-6 forward.

Regarding Raymond—he was pretty well-established as a tweener that wasn’t good enough to play in a good team’s top-6, but was too soft, shitty & one-dimensional to be played in the bottom-6. But I guess Treliving bought high based on his one season in Toronto.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
So it’s everyone else’s fault he’s been mostly useless.
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quality of teammate is simply a factor! I agree his early performance has been disappointing.

but I'd like to see him get a run with Matty or Willy to see how much his linemates have been a factor.
 
LeafGm said:
If Treliving had dumped Kampf like he should have this summer, I’d have been willing to go along with the idea that his contract could largely be blamed on Keefe. But since Treliving signed the deal and has doubled-down on it again this season, he owns it. No blaming Keefe anymore.
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fair.....but I wouldn't be surprised to see Kampf get the axe soon.

LeafGm said:
We’ll have to agree disagree on Ryan. I think he’s the very definition of a middling, replaceable bottom-6 forward.
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I always liked Ryan and imo he was the perfect 3C for a bunch of years there. iirc i was jealous of that signing at the time.

CAR (29-31): 153gms, 15:10, 15gl/37pt pace, 53.4xgf% (+2.1rel)
CGY (32-24): 192gms, 13:38, 11gl/34pt pace, 55.1xgf% (+2.6rel)
EDM (35-38): 231gms, 10:55, 10gl/19pt pace, 55.2xgf% (+1.1rel)

IMO a very good 3C at the time of the signing (fell off significantly in his last year in calgary tho), and then after that contract at 35+ he was still a very 4C for edmonton.


LeafGm said:
Regarding Raymond—he was pretty well-established as a tweener that wasn’t good enough to play in a good team’s top-6, but was too soft, shitty & one-dimensional to be played in the bottom-6. But I guess Treliving bought high based on his one season in Toronto.
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I dunno $3m for a 20/40 type middle six winger in his prime doesn't seem outlandish tbh. He was at a 19gl/45pt pace the year prior and 19/43 in the 5yr sample too. Without much PP time and also played the PK.
 
Troy Brouwer was the problem contract for me. But in general Tre targeted players with nice nerdies for his middle and bottom 6. He just overpaid for them. Ryan was loved by nerds. I think he listens to his nerds in free agency.
 
Preston said:
Troy Brouwer was the problem contract for me. But in general Tre targeted players with nice nerdies for his middle and bottom 6. He just overpaid for them. Ryan was loved by nerds. I think he listens to his nerds in free agency.
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Brouwer had cup stink on him too, not Bickell stink, but some aroma
 
yeah that Brouwer one was stinky. but again not a bottom liner.

for the 7yrs prior to that contract, and the 2yrs prior, Brouwer had played over 17mpg and averaged a 22/41 pace. In addition to throwing 220 hits a year. So that was a guy looked at as a physcial 2nd line winger.

Kinda similar to when we signed Clarkson, Though at least he only signed Brouwer for 3x$4.5, not the 7x$5.25 we signed Clarkson to 4 years earlier. And tbh Brouwer's track record was much more consistently productive than Clarkson's.
 
zeke said:
yeah that Brouwer one was stinky. but again not a bottom liner.

for the 7yrs prior to that contract, and the 2yrs prior, Brouwer had played over 17mpg and averaged a 22/41 pace. In addition to throwing 220 hits a year. So that was a guy looked at as a physcial 2nd line winger.

Kinda similar to when we signed Clarkson, Though at least he only signed Brouwer for 3x$4.5, not the 7x$5.25 we signed Clarkson to 4 years earlier. And tbh Brouwer's track record was much more consistently productive than Clarkson's.
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Yeah, I wanted to use that Brouwer contract to support my point. But he’d been a 20-goal/40-point guy for years leading up to that point and was fresh off scoring 8 goals & 13 points in 20 playoff games for the Blues.

So was it an awful contract? And should any GM with a brain have known that a 32 year-old Troy Brouwer was a ticking time bomb ready to go off at any moment and not signed him to a big four year deal? Absolutely.

But could Brouwer reasonably be labelled as some shitty, replaceable bottom 6er prior to his signing with Calgary? Nope.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
So it’s everyone else’s fault he’s been mostly useless.
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The entire line has been booty, but he's been the best guy on that line

xG

Robbie: 42.4%
Tavares: 37.8%
Holmberg: 34.7%

Generated the most shots of the 3, scoring chances and HD scoring chances of the 3. I was always told that we had an 11 million dollar centre that made his wingers better though, not sure what happened to him.
 
3 lines Robby has played more than 5min with so far:

Robertson-Tavares-Holmberg 14min, 20.2xgf% (-2.4xg/60), 00.0gf% (-4.3g/60)
Robertson-Holmberg-Pacioretty 14min, 54.6xgf% (+0.6xg/60), 100.0gf% (+4.5g/60)
Robertson-Domi-Nylander 6min, 85.0xgf% (+1.5xg/60), 50.0gf% (+0.0g/60)


what if that 3rd line is actually better with Holmberg at C than Tavares.
 
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