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OT: American Politics

FlyGuy said:
Oh, was that Russia, too?
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Cute deflection.

It is kinda fucking rich that your world view includes a more or less all powerful US intel apparatus pulling all the strings, but you're extremely dismissive about the foreign intel agency that has spent most of the last 70 yrs toe to toe with yours and is widely considered peer or at minimum near peer to the US.
 
MindzEye said:
Cute deflection.

It is kinda fucking rich that your world view includes a more or less all powerful US intel apparatus pulling all the strings, but you're extremely dismissive about the foreign intel agency that has spent most of the last 70 yrs toe to toe with yours and is widely considered peer or at minimum near peer to the US.
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This isn’t the 80s, the Cold War is over. Or so Obama famously told Mitt Romney

You really believe all the Russia hoaxes?
 
If you were talking about mossad I’d be more inclined to believe your boogeyman tales tbh. The Israeli lobbying contingent is enormously powerful
 
Do I believe that Russia runs intelligence operations against the people of the United States.... yes.
Do I believe China does ... yes
Do I think we run them against both yes.
Do I think Russia has a vested interest in helping Donald J Trump yes.
Ukraine as reasons 1 2 and 3
Shocking considering their choices are the guy that arms Ukraine or the guy that says Ukraine should give up
 
Tryamw said:
Do I believe that Russia runs intelligence operations against the people of the United States.... yes.
Do I believe China does ... yes
Do I think we run them against both yes.
Do I think Russia has a vested interest in helping Donald J Trump yes.
Ukraine as reasons 1 2 and 3
Shocking considering their choices are the guy that arms Ukraine or the guy that says Ukraine should give up
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Hook line and sinker
 
Tryamw said:
Reality...
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So it seems more likely to you that Russia is just determined to keep expanding westward and Trump will help them do that (despite no such gains being made during his presidency) rather than Russia finally pushing back on the eastward expansion of NATO (which NATO promised they wouldn’t do when the Soviet Union dissolved) and the NATO-installed regime installed during a coup in 2014 (BUT MAH DEMOCRACY?!).
 
FlyGuy said:
You’re living in the 80s.
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The KGB rebranded, they didn't disband.

FlyGuy said:
You really believe all the Russia hoaxes?
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depends on what you mean by "all"

That Russian operatives hacked the DNC and gave the emails to Wikileaks is public record. That he tried to blackmail Ukraine to make shit up about Hunter Biden to further another FSB created fiction (remember Alex Smirnov?) is also public record.

If you can be more specific though about which "hoaxes" you want me to show you being wrong about though that would be great.
 
MindzEye said:
The KGB rebranded, they didn't disband.



depends on what you mean by "all"

That Russian operatives hacked the DNC and gave the emails to Wikileaks is public record. That he tried to blackmail Ukraine to make shit up about Hunter Biden to further another FSB created fiction (remember Alex Smirnov?) is also public record.

If you can be more specific though about which "hoaxes" you want me to show you being wrong about though that would be great.
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Emails showing the Clinton campaign made up the Russian collusion hoax.

The Hunter laptop being Russian propoganda.

FBI lying on FISA warrants to spy on the trump campaign.

Obama collaborating with foreign intel agencies to spy on trump campaign.

It’s all very well documented at this point.

Don’t forget the FBI inciting and directing Jan 6. Very clear to see once you actually see all the footage plus the FBI director refusing to answer whether they had any agents in the crowd that day and how many.

It really all points to election interference at a massive scale
 
FlyGuy said:
So it seems more likely to you that Russia is just determined to keep expanding westward
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This is a joke, right? The fuck else is Russia doing in Ukraine? Are you going to do the "nazi" thing where I have to show you that the azov party got like 3% in the last election? Or are you going to do the "protecting Russian speaking citizens" thing where I have to bring up the budapest memorandum and remind you that just this week Putin demanded 2 entire Oblasts that aren't remotely Russian speaking majority?
FlyGuy said:
rather than Russia finally pushing back on the eastward expansion of NATO
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AKA: Sovereign nations entering into a defensive alliance. Not a single nato tank rolled into Estonia, Lithuania, Poland, etc. The idea that Russia is under threat from Nato is fucking hilarious. Literally the largest nuclear power in the world is worried about European tanks rolling east?
FlyGuy said:
(which NATO promised they wouldn’t do when the Soviet Union dissolved)
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Actually not true. The US never promised that at all. Gorbachev himself has confirmed in interviews that Nato expansion was never discussed

www.rbth.com

Mikhail Gorbachev: I am against all walls

The first and last president of the Soviet Union spoke with RBTH about the past and how it should inform the present.
www.rbth.com www.rbth.com

"The topic of 'NATO expansion' was not discussed at all, and it wasn't brought up in those years. I say this with full responsibility. Not a single Eastern European country raised the issue, not even after the Warsaw Pact ceased to exist in 1991. Western leaders didn't bring it up either."
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FlyGuy said:
Emails showing the Clinton campaign made up the Russian collusion hoax.

The Hunter laptop being Russian propoganda.

FBI lying on FISA warrants to spy on the trump campaign.

Obama collaborating with foreign intel agencies to spy on trump campaign.

It’s all very well documented at this point.

Don’t forget the FBI inciting and directing Jan 6. Very clear to see once you actually see all the footage plus the FBI director refusing to answer whether they had any agents in the crowd that day and how many.

It really all points to election interference at a massive scale
Click to expand...
When you said hook line sinker, you meant us, for responding, didn't you?

good one
 
We’ve been through this a million times.

NATO is a red herring. It’s the EU that triggers the Kremlin. It’s a mafia state that amps up paranoid propaganda to protect the regime - I’d say NATO expansion might even strengthen them. But the EU? With the rule of law, euro subsidies and access to vast pools of capital in Frankfurt? Now that scares the shit out of a gangster regime that struggles to provide Nutella and running water to its citizens despite having vast natural resources, a strategic geographic location and a reasonably well educated population.

Russia should be rich. It should be powerful. But it isn’t because it’s ruled by a cadre of criminal douchebags who are afraid of being strung up with piano wire by their own people.
 
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