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OT: American Politics

zeke said:
what you're saying is that this pardon is tantamount to conceding that america is over.

fair enough.
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That is what I believe, yes.

And it’s what Joe’s probably finally figured out as well, after years of denial, inaction and sticking his head in the sand about the imminent danger facing the rule of law & democracy in America.
 
LeafGm said:
The modern American electorate doesn’t believe in or give a shit about any of that. It’s totally and entirely irrelevant.
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yeah i've kinda given up thinking enough people buy into the democracy thing. even a fucking coup attempt didn't do it. too many people think he is going to make their lives better, that spell will have to be broken/they'll have to be hit over the head with it clearly.
 
hockeylover said:
i mean, i definitely agree it's not a solution to anything.

not really sure there is "a solution" though so he probably thinks fuck it im saving my kid.
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Biden is done with politics. He lost a son, and might not have many Christmas, Easters, etc left with his other son. The human side understands. From a political side it doesn't help but not sure it will matter in 4 years anyway as we know nothing will happen to trump.
 
Bleedsblue&white said:
Only because Americans are stupid.
It should be obvious what is about to happen in that country, protecting his son was the last decent thing he could do.
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And it may not even work. Once Trump is a dictator he can retroactively rescind all of Biden's pardon or just charge his pardoned enemies with new crimes made up out of whole cloth. Democracy will die on January 20th. We need to accept this. Biden can pardon 100 people today and in January 20th Trump can simply unpardon them.
 
zeke said:
the dems can no longer say a damn thing when Trump pardons everyone he wants and guarantees pardons for everyone who stays loyal to him.

goddammit.
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it's like they are accepting that rule of law isn't a thing anymore and it makes me sad and upset.
 
zeke said:
You're right, there are no norms, laws, or precedents standing in his way - the only thing standing in his way is a party sticking to clear righteous principles and pray that eventually the people stick up for them too.
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Standing up to Trump is going to be a day to day fight to trim R votes off of bills they're trying to get passed. Voters already don't see Democrats as some sort of paragon of democratic values. The exit return data isn't good yet, but something like 35% of Americans claiming that democracy was important to them in this election...were voting Trump ffs, to protect Democracy from the democrats.

zeke said:
But now that might be gone entirely, just to save nepo baby fuck up hunter a few well earned months in prison.
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Mate, it wasn't going to be a few months. Hunter's charges carry potential 25 and 17 year maximums. Now, he was only going to get a few months on the 4th because the actual crimes are pretty minimal. But Trump's DOJ was going to, 10000% re open this and send it back for resentencing. Nepo baby Hunter, who is a dipshit and deserves a few months in jail was likely to be turned into Trump's first political prisoner as a chunk of red meat for his mob. Every day Hunter spent in jail was going to be a Trump propaganda victory that they continuously screeched about and Democrats would have been afraid to take up his cause for the same things you're afraid about here, some sort of fear of looking like they weren't the party of righteous principles in the face of a firehose of Trump's law breaking insanity.
 
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zeke said:
nepo baby fuck up Hunter going to prison for a few months is well worth the principle of nobody being above the law.

this was very stupid and selfish and might overshadow all the good he's done.
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A few months? Do you really think that's all that would happen once Trump comes to power?
 
MindzEye said:
Standing up to Trump is going to be a day to day fight to trim R votes off of bills they're trying to get passed. Voters already don't see Democrats as some sort of paragon of democratic values. The exit return data isn't good yet, but something like 35% of Americans claiming that democracy was important to them in this election...and that's why they were voting Trump ffs, to protect Democracy from the democrats.



Mate, it wasn't going to be a few months. Hunter's charges carry potential 25 and 17 year maximums. Now, he was only going to get a few months on the 4th because the actual crimes are pretty minimal. But Trump's DOJ was going to, 10000% re open this and send it back for resentencing. Nepo baby Hunter, who is a dipshit and deserves a few months in jail was likely to be turned into Trump's first political prisoner as a chunk of red meat for his mob. Every day Hunter spent in jail was going to be a Trump propaganda victory that they continuously screeched about and Democrats would have been afraid to take up his cause for the same things you're afraid about here, some sort of fear of looking like they weren't the party of righteous principles in the face of a firehose of Trump's law breaking insanity.
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Nobody cared about Hunter. It was always just away to make Joe look bad. They wouldn't have bothered with any of that.
 
zeke said:
so does Joe apparently.
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Yep.

After about 4-5 years of facing the mortal peril American democracy and the rule of law were in with inaction, half-measures, and outright burying his head in the sand with his unshakeable faith in the American people and American institutions—I think he finally gets it now.

Now that it’s too late to do anything except save himself and his family, to the best of his ability.
 
LeafGm said:
Yep.

After about 4-5 years of facing the mortal peril American democracy and the rule of law were in with inaction, half-measures, and outright burying his head in the sand with his unshakeable faith in the American people and American institutions—I think he finally gets it now.

Now that it’s too late to do anything except save himself and his family, to the best of his ability.
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agreed that this is a very bad thing.
 
zeke said:
this is going to make things much much worse for Trump's ability to use the courts as a weapon. not better.
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He already owns the Supreme Court. We need to stop discussing this like it's something that might happen in the future if this, that, or another thing happens first. It's already happened. Once Trump won on November 5th, America officially became a failed state. On January 20th, American democracy is over and the courts become a rubber stamp. That was going to happen no matter what Biden did or who he pardoned. The game is over and the good guys lost.
 
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