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OT: MLB Thread

Sal_Butera said:
Not sure if anyone has watched the Reggie Jackson documentary on Amazon Prime - talks about “Expos kings ransom offer” he turned down to sign for significantly less w NYY in Nov, 1976.

Bronfman’s offer was in excess of $3.5M over 5-years, whereas, NYY offer was less than $3M. Recall, pre-1982 there was no US / Canada tax treaty - American ball players paid minimal IRS taxes w first $150K tax free, and had a min flat rate in Canada, which is why so many had homes and lived in Mtl area - Carter, Speir, Grimsley, Parrish etc

Different times…
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Like UFA's in hockey (Brett Hull comes to mind) Reggie was just using Montreal as leverage.

Besides, knowing cheapskate Bronfman, he would have had buyer's remorse before the ink on the contract was even dry just like he did years later with Gary Carter.
 
Krustchev said:
That became one of the most, if not the most, frustrating great teams ever.
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Frustratingly mediocre in the middle infield. I liked Scott and Speier but they were far from elite in any aspect of the game, save for Scott's base stealing. But you have to get on base in order to steal other bases. On defense, neither of them had sufficient range, especially when over half their games were played on Astroturf. There was no Expos equivalent to Ozzie Smith or Gary Templeton or Dave Concepcion or Steve Sax or Manny Trillo.

I looked up the top ranked 2B and SS of the 1980's and both Scott and Speier were the 39th best at their positions. Granted the list includes players from the American League but still.
 
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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Frustratingly mediocre in the middle infield. I liked Scott and Speier but they were far from elite in any aspect of the game, save for Scott's base stealing. But you have to get on base in order to steal other bases. On defense, neither of them had sufficient range, especially when over half their games were played on Astroturf. There was no Expos equivalent to Ozzie Smith or Gary Templeton or Dave Concepcion or Steve Sax or Manny Trillo.

I looked up the top ranked 2B and SS of the 1980's and both Scott and Speier were the 39th best at their positions. Granted the list includes players from the American League but still.
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They were elite in the outfield, elite behind the plate, excellent starting pitching . . . No team is perfect.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
they were pathetic failures...
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They were never quite as good as the teams that beat them. In 79 they lost the division to the Bucs, who won the WS. 1980 they lost it to the Phillies, who also went on to win the WS. In 81 they'd have probably beaten LA if Game 5 hadn't been rained out. Once it was, it gave Valenzuela an extra day's rest and the Expos only scored one run off him. LA then won the WS. In 82 the Cards won the division and the WS. So for the 4 best years of that team they had the unfortunate luck to be in the same division as the eventual World Series champions. If the wild card had existed back then, who knows?

In 1994 the Expos would have won it all and made it look easy. Could have been a dynasty. MLB pathetically failed.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
They were never quite as good as the teams that beat them. In 79 they lost the division to the Bucs, who won the WS. 1980 they lost it to the Phillies, who also went on to win the WS. In 81 they'd have probably beaten LA if Game 5 hadn't been rained out. Once it was, it gave Valenzuela an extra day's rest and the Expos only scored one run off him. LA then won the WS. In 82 the Cards won the division and the WS. So for the 4 best years of that team they had the unfortunate luck to be in the same division as the eventual World Series champions. If the wild card had existed back then, who knows?

In 1994 the Expos would have won it all and made it look easy. Could have been a dynasty. MLB pathetically failed.
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More like Brochu pathetically failed. He was one of the main driving forces of the shutdown in August '94, as I recall.
 
Krustchev said:
More like Brochu pathetically failed. He was one of the main driving forces of the shutdown in August '94, as I recall.
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As mouthpiece for the consortium, who are the real culprits - Jean Coutu, Jacques Ménard, Bell, Desjardins etc

There were a couple of owners in the group (led ny Mark Routtenberg) who were very adamant about accepting the hometown discount offer the group of 4-players had proposed as a 3-year extension for Walker, Grissom, Wettland and Hill
 
Krustchev said:
More like Brochu pathetically failed. He was one of the main driving forces of the shutdown in August '94, as I recall.
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Most, if not all of the owners wanted to break the union, and the owners with the most money had more say in what happened. Brochu was a bit player by comparison. What he wanted or didn't want was of no consequence.
 
Sal_Butera said:
As mouthpiece for the consortium, who are the real culprits - Jean Coutu, Jacques Ménard, Bell, Desjardins etc

There were a couple of owners in the group (led ny Mark Routtenberg) who were very adamant about accepting the hometown discount offer the group of 4-players had proposed as a 3-year extension for Walker, Grissom, Wettland and Hill
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If the consortium could have just kept it together, or mostly together, for just one more season, the Expos would have still won it all in 95. Instead they sold everything that wasn't nailed down. It would have cost a bit in the short term but they were pretty much guaranteed for a payoff. It was just typical short-sighted, I want my money type thinking.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
They were never quite as good as the teams that beat them. In 79 they lost the division to the Bucs, who won the WS. 1980 they lost it to the Phillies, who also went on to win the WS. In 81 they'd have probably beaten LA if Game 5 hadn't been rained out. Once it was, it gave Valenzuela an extra day's rest and the Expos only scored one run off him. LA then won the WS. In 82 the Cards won the division and the WS. So for the 4 best years of that team they had the unfortunate luck to be in the same division as the eventual World Series champions. If the wild card had existed back then, who knows?

In 1994 the Expos would have won it all and made it look easy. Could have been a dynasty. MLB pathetically failed.
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you know as well as I do that no team in the post season is a guaranteed winner. The myth that the Expos would have easily won in 1994 is pure fantasy. The Bruins this year had a season better than almost every previous NHL team and didn't win. Seattle had what 116 wins, didn't win. Dodgers last year, 113/114 wins or something like that, didn't win.

As for the Phillies in 1980, they were tied with three game to go at home, they blew it, just like in 1981 when they were up 2-1 at home and blew it.

Being an Expo fan was an exercise in futility.
 
TheCountofMonteCristo said:
you know as well as I do that no team in the post season is a guaranteed winner. The myth that the Expos would have easily won in 1994 is pure fantasy. The Bruins this year had a season better than almost every previous NHL team and didn't win. Seattle had what 116 wins, didn't win. Dodgers last year, 113/114 wins or something like that, didn't win.

As for the Phillies in 1980, they were tied with three game to go at home, they blew it, just like in 1981 when they were up 2-1 at home and blew it.

Being an Expo fan was an exercise in futility.
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They had chances to win, but in the end they lost to better teams. The 79 Pirates were better and so were the 80 Phillies. The fact that the deciding series were played at the Big O is irrelevant. The Expos were the underdogs both times. Even when they won the division in the 81 mini-series, the Phillies were still the favorites to win. 1994 was the only time in club history that the Expos would have been the favorites to win it all.
 
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