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OT: Movies/TV Shows

zeke

Well-known member
That sort of creative license I'd be fine with.

But in the baby cartoony non-source material, there was no one before the real Joker, and the real Joker was turned into this looney by falling into a vat of chemicals, not because he was just pretty sad.

pretty sure your baby comics had a bunch of different origin stories for him.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
pretty sure your baby comics had a bunch of different origin stories for him.
The original and accepted baby comic origin was what I said, with some variation here and there. I think he was initially just some worker in the plant, then they said he was another villain called the Red Hood and fell in during a heist, and I think Bats was the one that even knocked him in by accident in a couple of those variations. But it was always around the same thing. Chemicals made him that way.

A year or two ago they did a story called The Three Jokers, where they made it seem there were actually three different guys posing as the Joker all these years, unbeknownst to Bats, but one of them was like the boss of the other two. For the life of me, can't even remember how they ended that story.
 

zeke

Well-known member
The original and accepted baby comic origin was what I said, with some variation here and there. I think he was initially just some worker in the plant, then they said he was another villain called the Red Hood and fell in during a heist, and I think Bats was the one that even knocked him in by accident in a couple of those variations. But it was always around the same thing. Chemicals made him that way.

A year or two ago they did a story called The Three Jokers, where they made it seem there were actually three different guys posing as the Joker all these years, unbeknownst to Bats, but one of them was like the boss of the other two. For the life of me, can't even remember how they ended that story.

I think the Dark Knight flicks made a good choice in making it seem like all the origin stories were just stories joker made up for fun.

This was definitely the real Joker though. But obvioisly a different origin story - though not necessarily because there might always be a vat of acid in his future.

And lets be honest this origin story rocked.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
I think the Dark Knight flicks made a good choice in making it seem like all the origin stories were just stories joker made up for fun.

This was definitely the real Joker though. But obvioisly a different origin story - though not necessarily because there might always be a vat of acid in his future.

And lets be honest this origin story rocked.

no
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
I think the Dark Knight flicks made a good choice in making it seem like all the origin stories were just stories joker made up for fun.

This was definitely the real Joker though. But obvioisly a different origin story - though not necessarily because there might always be a vat of acid in his future.

And lets be honest this origin story rocked.
The Nolan movies didn't have Joker give different versions of his origin story. He gave different versions of how he got the scars, and yeah, that was a brilliant little gimmick among many in that trilogy. How he became the Joker was never actually addressed, though.

Unless they change it in the sequel, this wasn't the super villain Joker. He was a depressed ordinary shmo who inspired future lunatics, one of which became the real Joker. Now I have to rewatch the ending to recall why I came away with that. For now, I just remember a bunch of copycats rioting in the city.

And nah, the origin story didn't rock. It was a great take on how those marginalized by society could lose it, but I'd almost rather they have created a brand new psycho personal than to pull the Joker into it. I mean, the Joker's whole shtick, consistently through every single era and variation in the comics (AND movies - Nicholson, Ledger, Cesar fucking Romero!), is that this is a guy having FUN committing crimes and killing. He's literally never sad, even when getting his face punched in (just like when Ledger was laughing in the interrogation room while Bats beat the shit out of him). On every level open to reasonable interpretation, this is a different guy. There's no way that Joaquin's guy turns into Ledger's guy.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
Agreed. The whole point of the Phoenix Joker is that he’s an extreme version of so many contemporary dudes suffering from mental illness/isolation/bad economic and romantic prospects

He’s not “larger than life” like the classic Joker
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
Agreed. The whole point of the Phoenix Joker is that he’s an extreme version of so many contemporary people suffering from mental illness/isolation/bad economic and romantic prospects

He’s not “larger than life” like the classic Joker
Yup. Now they can change all that with a wave of the hand by simply saying he's the same guy in the sequel, but that would do a real disservice to the first movie, and generally to the Joker character itself because that's a major, major change to everything he's always been about. It wouldn't be the same guy, but they'd be shoehorning the ill-fitting Joaquin character into the real supervillain character.
 

CH1

The Artist Formerly Known as chiggins.
More and more, directors and writers are straying away from the original text. Which makes sense; who wants to regurgitate the same yarn….. it’s more fun and satisfying to put your own spin on it while acknowledging contemporary issues.

TLDR; the old brand/IP is a cash cow to further a director’s personal vision
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
More and more, directors and writers are straying away from the original text. Which makes sense; who wants to regurgitate the same yarn….. it’s more fun and satisfying to put your own spin on it while acknowledging contemporary issues.

TLDR; the old brand/IP is a cash cow to further a director’s personal vision
Yeah, I’m not really a fan of it in most cases though, because they usually can’t match the original and will skew it in some way that doesn’t work.
 

Leafin'

Well-known member
Did any of it really happen or was it all in his head?

Pretty sure he smashed his head against the glass in the psyche hospital.

Is he the inspiration for the real joker?

Is he THE joker?

Is he Bruce Wayne’s brother?

LOVED how open ended that movie was and how you can interpret it so many ways. So good. Brilliant storytelling.
 

LeafOfFaith

Well-known member
Always a risk when you seek new ground
It’s rarely ever new ground. If it were, they wouldn’t need existing IP. That’s my overall gripe with the entertainment industry - not enough money goes to original works because they make billions off the existing properties.

I’m not sure there’s been even two or three marvel movies that didn’t lift directly from old, classic comic book stories. Use the characters but for chrissakes, come up with a new story.
 
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