OT: The News Thread
- Thread starter MindzEye
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Bermygoon
New member
Re: OT - The News Thread
Agreed just when Iraq was starting to look a little more settled...here we go again
Agreed just when Iraq was starting to look a little more settled...here we go again
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
If the members of the flotilla were actually peace activists they would have agreed right away to the IDF's request that they embark to the port of Ashdod in Israel and have their supplies personally inspected. I think that it's pretty obvious as a result that they were carrying contraband or military-grade equipment to bolster Hamas given their outright refusal of a more than reasonable demand. And pretty much, if you're stupid enough to attack someone carrying an automatic weapon from one of the most intensive commando programs in the world, well... that's Darwinism right there.
If the members of the flotilla were actually peace activists they would have agreed right away to the IDF's request that they embark to the port of Ashdod in Israel and have their supplies personally inspected. I think that it's pretty obvious as a result that they were carrying contraband or military-grade equipment to bolster Hamas given their outright refusal of a more than reasonable demand. And pretty much, if you're stupid enough to attack someone carrying an automatic weapon from one of the most intensive commando programs in the world, well... that's Darwinism right there.
theREALkoreaboy
New member
Re: OT - The News Thread
:iagree:
:iagree:
SundinsTooth
Leafs Moderator
Re: OT - The News Thread
It doesn't matter who is to blame here, Israel stepped in it and have smeared shit all over themselves and this is going to hurt them. Foolish move on their part to board a vessel at sea like this, as it was destined to end badly.
So Jays, did they have military grade equipment on board? You seem sure of it....I hadn't read that yet so was curious if that is indeed the case.
Man, Egypt is lifting some restrictions on Gaza over this....boy what a mess.....
Reminds me of a Tom Clancy novel (Sum of All Fears, I think) in which a protester is killed in a heavy handed way, triggering war on Israel, as it was captured on video.....
It doesn't matter who is to blame here, Israel stepped in it and have smeared shit all over themselves and this is going to hurt them. Foolish move on their part to board a vessel at sea like this, as it was destined to end badly.
So Jays, did they have military grade equipment on board? You seem sure of it....I hadn't read that yet so was curious if that is indeed the case.
Man, Egypt is lifting some restrictions on Gaza over this....boy what a mess.....
Reminds me of a Tom Clancy novel (Sum of All Fears, I think) in which a protester is killed in a heavy handed way, triggering war on Israel, as it was captured on video.....
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corksens
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
Quite simply, I don't believe that either side is being truthful. But if I had to choose who holds the moral authority in these issues, it's the Isreali's.
Ultimately, they don't want Palestine wiped off the map...which can't be said for the other side.
Quite simply, I don't believe that either side is being truthful. But if I had to choose who holds the moral authority in these issues, it's the Isreali's.
Ultimately, they don't want Palestine wiped off the map...which can't be said for the other side.
corksens
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
They were given the land - they didn't take anything other than what they were given.
As for the matter at hand. These sure don't seen like "peaceful protesters" to me...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI"]YouTube- Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers (With Sound)[/ame]
They were given the land - they didn't take anything other than what they were given.
As for the matter at hand. These sure don't seen like "peaceful protesters" to me...
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LulDJh4fWI"]YouTube- Close-Up Footage of Mavi Marmara Passengers Attacking IDF Soldiers (With Sound)[/ame]
corksens
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
I know it wasn't. But something was still given to them by the powers of the day to make up for the fact that they were systematically exterminated for years.
But again, I am ABSOLUTELY not getting into the history of the Jewish state. It happened and now we have to deal with the realities.
I know it wasn't. But something was still given to them by the powers of the day to make up for the fact that they were systematically exterminated for years.
But again, I am ABSOLUTELY not getting into the history of the Jewish state. It happened and now we have to deal with the realities.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
The Jews were more than happy in 1948 to implement a UN-sanctioned two-state solution. The Arabs got all pissy, even though there has never existed a Palestinian state (ever) and immediately launched an all-out ethnically-motivated attack to drive Israelis into the sea. Then they lost multiple other wars in 1967, 1973, and last year, rejecting further two-state solutions (including two recent offers by Israel), including one in 1993 that snake Arafat went back on. I have no sympathy for Palestinians whatsoever. They made their bed and they can sleep in it.
The Jews were more than happy in 1948 to implement a UN-sanctioned two-state solution. The Arabs got all pissy, even though there has never existed a Palestinian state (ever) and immediately launched an all-out ethnically-motivated attack to drive Israelis into the sea. Then they lost multiple other wars in 1967, 1973, and last year, rejecting further two-state solutions (including two recent offers by Israel), including one in 1993 that snake Arafat went back on. I have no sympathy for Palestinians whatsoever. They made their bed and they can sleep in it.
Re: OT - The News Thread
In all fairness, the state of Israel as states are now known had never existed either.
In all fairness, the state of Israel as states are now known had never existed either.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
Ummmm...
Ummmm...
theREALkoreaboy
New member
Re: OT - The News Thread
this pretty much sums it up. the "palestinians'" leaders are violent, stupid, untrustworthy butchers and they deserve NO ONE'S sympathy. they could have had a state many times over by now if they hadn't have been so greedy, bloodthirsty, and dumb.
this pretty much sums it up. the "palestinians'" leaders are violent, stupid, untrustworthy butchers and they deserve NO ONE'S sympathy. they could have had a state many times over by now if they hadn't have been so greedy, bloodthirsty, and dumb.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
And really, I feel badly for Palestinians themselves. No one in the world wants them: Israel certainly wants no part of Gaza and the West Bank's poverty, Jordan refused them (even though the majority of Palestinians are of Jordanian stock), Egypt has repeatedly blockaded Gaza to keep them out. And their leaders are corrupt beyond belief as well. It's a really terrible situation for them and the fact that there is substantial evidence to indicate that most voters were coerced upon threat of physical harm to vote for Hamas in the last democratic elections is certainly repugnant beyond belief. So they just can't get a break. The extremists though? They can go to hell. They're the single biggest problem preventing Gaza and the West Bank from becoming well-developed, participatory nations in the world.
And really, I feel badly for Palestinians themselves. No one in the world wants them: Israel certainly wants no part of Gaza and the West Bank's poverty, Jordan refused them (even though the majority of Palestinians are of Jordanian stock), Egypt has repeatedly blockaded Gaza to keep them out. And their leaders are corrupt beyond belief as well. It's a really terrible situation for them and the fact that there is substantial evidence to indicate that most voters were coerced upon threat of physical harm to vote for Hamas in the last democratic elections is certainly repugnant beyond belief. So they just can't get a break. The extremists though? They can go to hell. They're the single biggest problem preventing Gaza and the West Bank from becoming well-developed, participatory nations in the world.
Re: OT - The News Thread
come on, they were not nation states as that name is now used.
Ummmm...
come on, they were not nation states as that name is now used.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
Actually, the very definition of a Nation-State would apply to the Biblical Kingdom of Israel, particularly if you are of the opinion that a Nation-State is predicated on a shared linguistic, cultural, or religious tradition with defined sovereign borders. That would definitely make ancient Israel a Nation-State in our modern conception of the term.
Actually, the very definition of a Nation-State would apply to the Biblical Kingdom of Israel, particularly if you are of the opinion that a Nation-State is predicated on a shared linguistic, cultural, or religious tradition with defined sovereign borders. That would definitely make ancient Israel a Nation-State in our modern conception of the term.
Re: OT - The News Thread
problem with your argument is that to prove Israel was a state once, you had to go back 3000 years. Not convincing.
We all know Israel exists for two main reasons:
1) the west felt guilty for the holocaust; and
2) the US props it up financially.
I don't feel guilty for the holocaust, I didn't do it.
I think the US should use its financial might and impose a settlement although on the other hand, one could argue that the US is Israel's lapdog. At times I think the US is the puppeteer and others I believe Israel is the puppeteer.
problem with your argument is that to prove Israel was a state once, you had to go back 3000 years. Not convincing.
We all know Israel exists for two main reasons:
1) the west felt guilty for the holocaust; and
2) the US props it up financially.
I don't feel guilty for the holocaust, I didn't do it.
I think the US should use its financial might and impose a settlement although on the other hand, one could argue that the US is Israel's lapdog. At times I think the US is the puppeteer and others I believe Israel is the puppeteer.
JaysCyYoung
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
The primary reason that Israel exists is that Jewish investors smartly purchased large tracts of land legally from the Arabs in the late nineteenth century and began settling the area of their ancestral homeland in large numbers. When the Holocaust occurred it was judged to be the ideal area to grant the Jewish majority of the region a nation-state. In fact, Tel Aviv wasn't even anything more than a desert wasteland prior to the beginning of the twentieth century. It was Jewish ingenuity, intelligent planning, and financial clout that allowed them to create an oasis in the desert more than European guilt.
The primary reason that Israel exists is that Jewish investors smartly purchased large tracts of land legally from the Arabs in the late nineteenth century and began settling the area of their ancestral homeland in large numbers. When the Holocaust occurred it was judged to be the ideal area to grant the Jewish majority of the region a nation-state. In fact, Tel Aviv wasn't even anything more than a desert wasteland prior to the beginning of the twentieth century. It was Jewish ingenuity, intelligent planning, and financial clout that allowed them to create an oasis in the desert more than European guilt.
corksens
Legend
Re: OT - The News Thread
Imagine that, the US supporting the only working democracy in the middle east.