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OT: The Official Toronto Raptors Thread

Rob Babcock is one of the worst basketball executives in the history of the NBA.

- His first draft pick was taking Araujo over Andre Iguodala
- The coach he hired tried to fight everyone....everyone, including Vince slamming him on a trainers table
- He signed Rafer to a 5 yr deal
- The Vince trade is maybe the worst trade in NBA history. This isn't even a 18 yr old for a european centre guy who looks like he eats cigars for breakfast and the 18 yr old becomes 4/5ths of Mike...this is trading Vince for nothing, immediately nothing.
- The year after fucking up by not picking Iguodala, he could have made it okay in the end by taking Danny Granger. Instead he took Joey Graham and his complete lack of basketball skills
- When they hired Babcock, they brought in a "senior advisor" because some people at MLSE were actually smart enough to be concerned about how bad he was

He lasted 18 months, which is a shockingly short tenure for a senior basketball executive that didn't show his dick to an employee or something.

I completely understand why someone would be cranky about how Vince went out, but I don't blame him for not thinking the team had a future, or that it wasn't run competently, because at the time you could have said all of the bad things possible about the organization and you would have been right.
 
Deckie007 said:
Your golden rule. The Raps were going to squander his career if he stayed here and "tried".
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Then ask for a trade. And if you want, do so publicly. Faking injuries and only playing at 10% breaks the rule. Many stars have asked for trades. VC's handling of the situation is somewhat unique. Raps are under no obligation to celebrate him as a special icon. He quit on them, and did so the worst possible way.
 
MindzEye said:
Rob Babcock is one of the worst basketball executives in the history of the NBA.

- His first draft pick was taking Araujo over Andre Iguodala
- The coach he hired tried to fight everyone....everyone, including Vince slamming him on a trainers table
- He signed Rafer to a 5 yr deal
- The Vince trade is maybe the worst trade in NBA history. This isn't even a 18 yr old for a european centre guy who looks like he eats cigars for breakfast and the 18 yr old becomes 4/5ths of Mike...this is trading Vince for nothing, immediately nothing.
- The year after fucking up by not picking Iguodala, he could have made it okay in the end by taking Danny Granger. Instead he took Joey Graham and his complete lack of basketball skills
- When they hired Babcock, they brought in a "senior advisor" because some people at MLSE were actually smart enough to be concerned about how bad he was

He lasted 18 months, which is a shockingly short tenure for a senior basketball executive that didn't show his dick to an employee or something.

I completely understand why someone would be cranky about how Vince went out, but I don't blame him for not thinking the team had a future, or that it wasn't run competently, because at the time you could have said all of the bad things possible about the organization and you would have been right.
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See above. Ask for a trade.

One could always look back and realize that their spouse cheated on them because he/she was a bad partner and failed to fulfill their end of the marriage, in which case they can forgive the cheating spouse and self reflect to do better in the future. They are though under no obligation to plaster their cheating spouses' photo all over the house.

I am not saying VC shouldn't be welcomed back to the arena or anything. He just does not deserve his number going up.
 
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Wayward DP said:
I mean you're not wrong, but time and a chip heal all wounds
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Not all. He is welcomed back. He can attend alumi events. He can meet fans, show up on broadcasts, have his jersey sold at real sports.

But for me, his jersey doesn't belong anywhere near the rafters alongside Johnny Bower and Darry Sittler.
 
Only charitable possibility here is that he played through it like a lot of guys play through minorish stuff and then his doctor suggested it would respond to physio and it didn't. A scope is a minor procedure, he could easily be ready during camp for the start of the season.

The positive is that he was playing hurt last year and wasn't just ass
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Also to be fair Eric and Aaron Williams are both top 5 Williams Raptors and the Alonzo Mourning era was in no way embarrassing.
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Alvin, Walt, Lou, Malik, ....Corliss if we extend the list to Williamson

They're probably not even top 5 Williams or Williams derivative Raptors of all time.
 
Harm reduction is a viable team building strategy. 7 games of Malik is less bad than the more games Aaron & Eric played here.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Is Rob Babcock the worst exec in Toronto sports history?
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Easily. Even if he was just an interim GM he would be in consideration for the worst. But getting named GM, immediately having the org put training wheels on him (Embry) and then fire him 18 months later, but still have those 18 months be an unmitigated disaster is worse than any other tenure I can think of.
 
MindzEye said:
Easily. Even if he was just an interim GM he would be in consideration for the worst. But getting named GM, immediately having the org put training wheels on him (Embry) and then fire him 18 months later, but still have those 18 months be an unmitigated disaster is worse than any other tenure I can think of.
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Gord Stellick?
 
CTheBigPicture said:
Not all. He is welcomed back. He can attend alumi events. He can meet fans, show up on broadcasts, have his jersey sold at real sports.

But for me, his jersey doesn't belong anywhere near the rafters alongside Johnny Bower and Darry Sittler.
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I used to feel the same way as you. And I still believe that Vince “Wince Harder” Carter, the actual person, absolutely does not deserve to have his jersey retired or to be honoured by the Raptors franchise.

But with how he’s viewed around the league & the impact he had on growing the fanbase and Canadian basketball in general, this is bigger than the flawed individual that is Vince Carter. He’s an icon, and the Raps would look like petty bitches if they didn’t retire his jersey. Especially considering they went on to win the championship Vince himself never managed to win, which gives them space to be magnanimous.

The only caveat I’d add to that is—nobody’s jersey should be getting raised to the rafters until Kyle Lowry’s is already there. Kyle first, then Vince after, at some later point 1-2 years down the line.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Gord Stellick?
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Close. I would claim Babcock as worse because he actually worked in a functioning organization that was actively trying to help him succeed. Stellick was unfortunately working for the Ballard era Leafs with no real functioning professional organization around him.

But yeah:
- Courtnall for Kokedic
- Scott Pearson over Gelinas/Roenick/Rod/Teemu
- Scott Thornton over Guerin

Is a super impressive 2 year run worthy of competing with Babcock. I still give the edge to Babcock though because of how badly the Vince situation was handled leading up to the trade. Stellick wasn't allowed to fire Brophy, and Brophy was the big problem leading to the Courtnall trade.
 
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