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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

MindzEye said:
If this is who he is, yeah. If this is who he's better than prime Pujols, Cabrera, Manny Ramirez, Griffey Jr, A-Rod, Trout,etc.

The one word of caution though is that Bryce Harper had the 2nd best 22 yr old season ever (Ted Williams, shockingly 1st) not that long ago and while he's awesome, he's just normal awesome and not what this is.

Generational hitters do generational things though, and this is looking awfully generational. We might be seeing something completely special and it would shock no one who watched him hitting as a teenager in the minors. He looked like a generational bat until he let his weight get completely out of control
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Thing is vladdy is doing this literally with no luck on his number. Babip, exit velocity, etc. all indicating sustainability.

Lemme see if fangraphs has statcast data for harper that year.....

...nice they do.

Harper: 91.4ev, .289xavg, .551xslg, .412xwoba
Vladdy: 94.9ev, .308xavg, .595xslg, .426xwoba*

* before today

Harper took more walks that year which boosts that last number but even at his best he wasn't doing what vladdys doing.
 
MON4NHLTOR4MLB said:
Why do we use Payamps, Bergen and Castro in late close games? Pure stupidity. If that’s all that’s there then make a friggin trade. Unbelievable blowing all these games. Offence gives you every chance you can get. Should’ve used Romano for the top of 10...
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Some of the pitching decisions this season have been playing with fire. I’m not sure of the reasoning. Also, Shatkins needs to strengthen the area regardless.
 
Jeremy said:
Some of the pitching decisions this season have been playing with fire. I’m not sure of the reasoning. Also, Shatkins needs to strengthen the area regardless.
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The problem is you can't have Romano pitching every high leverage situation when you have a high leverage case every game.

This game basically was blown in the first inning. You get a great game from your "starter" in Stripling, you score 5 runs in the first 9 innings, you should win the game. But you give up the 5-spot to start it and now you're forced into some tough innings late. If your opener only gives up 1 (all I'm asking for is a 9.00 ERA), then now you're up 5-1 heading to the 9th.

I'm not really going to blame Montoyo when he has basically less than nothing to work with. They tried the usually reliable Chatwood yesterday in a big spot and he blew it. Castro has usually been good this year in limited innings, but he blew it a little today. Early on the the year they were fine since they had choices with Merryweather and Phelps who were doing well, but not injuries cost them too.

So, yeah, you absolutely should not have guys like Payamps, Beasley, Mayza, etc... pitch in these big spots, true. But right now, they really don't have anyone who you can trust.
 
UWHabs said:
The problem is you can't have Romano pitching every high leverage situation when you have a high leverage case every game.

This game basically was blown in the first inning. You get a great game from your "starter" in Stripling, you score 5 runs in the first 9 innings, you should win the game. But you give up the 5-spot to start it and now you're forced into some tough innings late. If your opener only gives up 1 (all I'm asking for is a 9.00 ERA), then now you're up 5-1 heading to the 9th.

I'm not really going to blame Montoyo when he has basically less than nothing to work with. They tried the usually reliable Chatwood yesterday in a big spot and he blew it. Castro has usually been good this year in limited innings, but he blew it a little today. Early on the the year they were fine since they had choices with Merryweather and Phelps who were doing well, but not injuries cost them too.

So, yeah, you absolutely should not have guys like Payamps, Beasley, Mayza, etc... pitch in these big spots, true. But right now, they really don't have anyone who you can trust.
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My last post was actually the first time I’ve criticized Montoyo. Some of his decisions over the season have seemed strange to me when he could have turned to a better pitcher with a greater chance to get the outs. But for sure Shatkins needs to address the area, as I’ve said before, so Montoyo has more to work with.
 
I'd say my least favourite thing about sports fandom is the whining about bullpen decisions. Managers make mistakes so it's not like they should be immune from criticism, but it seems fairly obvious to me that the Jays bullpen was overachieving earlier in the year and has come back to normality after an absurd amount of injuries.

Yates - Out for the year
Merryweather - On IL
Phelps - On IL
Borucki - On IL
Hatch - On IL
Milone - On IL

Also Chatwood pitched 3 of 4 games before today.

News Flash - a team's 7th and 8th bullpen options aren't going to be that great.

Anthony Castro pitched well in the minors, and then for the Jays before getting hurt. It's a fair point to suggest maybe Romano could have pitched a second inning, but I am comfortable with the decision to go to Castro in that spot. There just aren't a lot of good options right now, but we're still okay at the back end with Chatwood, Romano & Dolis.
 
GEEMAN said:
meaning what if your guy is playing like a slug
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The thing is, pitchers are never used in the way you're talking about. You don't realize the guy is a slug that day until he's a few batters in.

Yesterday, Chatwood did not have it. He was awful. He got 6 batters. Bergen didn't have it either. He got 4 batters. There was even a mound visit after he walked the first 3 guys. They could have replaced him, but didn't. He got the next guy.

The only thing the new rule has changed is the LOOGY strategy. A nice effect is that there are fewer mid-inning pitching changes. Now everyone has to be able to pitch to hitters on both sides of the plate. It's an improvement, IMO.
 
What's happening with the bullpen is what everyone who is paying attention knew would happen sooner or later. It is shambles. I give Montoyo lots of credit for keeping it together until now. They're almost 20 deep in the bullpen already. It's rule 5 guys, DFA pickups, and AAAA players mixed in with a few legit arms. That's not a strategy for a contender.
 
manny said:
The thing is, pitchers are never used in the way you're talking about. You don't realize the guy is a slug that day until he's a few batters in.

Yesterday, Chatwood did not have it. He was awful. He got 6 batters. Bergen didn't have it either. He got 4 batters. There was even a mound visit after he walked the first 3 guys. They could have replaced him, but didn't. He got the next guy.

The only thing the new rule has changed is the LOOGY strategy. A nice effect is that there are fewer mid-inning pitching changes. Now everyone has to be able to pitch to hitters on both sides of the plate. It's an improvement, IMO.
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Without the 3 batter rule, yesterday was a time where they might have gone to Bergen for a batter to see if he can get him out, and if he can't, then you go back to a righty right away afterwards. But since you had to give him the 3 batters, you're forced to live with him (and then the 4th guy up was a lefty anyways, may as well leave him in to try).

So yeah, it kind of sucks. But also 55% or whatever of the time Bergen gets his batter out and the game is over. Or like if Chatwood got one lucky break earlier in the inning, then you don't even get to that point.
 
And Vladdy is amazing. There was a contingent of Jays fans that wanted him traded this offseason before the prospect shine wore off completely. Sad. He may very well be the best Jay ever once it's all said and done (not even close yet). His dad was one of the best Expos ever, so it is only right. Vladdy has 3 kids already and I look forward to seeing one of them in the Vancouver lineup in 15 years.

Only downside is that Vlad is going to get paid enormous sums by someone in 3 years. AA would have him signed to a 10-year extension already. Atkins wanted to play it safe. Another terrible call. But let's enjoy it while we can.
 
manny said:
What's happening with the bullpen is what everyone who is paying attention knew would happen sooner or later. It is shambles. I give Montoyo lots of credit for keeping it together until now. They're almost 20 deep in the bullpen already. It's rule 5 guys, DFA pickups, and AAAA players mixed in with a few legit arms. That's not a strategy for a contender.
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True but having 1/2 your staff on IR when you were vulnerable to begin with is hard to overcome
 
manny said:
And Vladdy is amazing. There was a contingent of Jays fans that wanted him traded this offseason before the prospect shine wore off completely. Sad. He may very well be the best Jay ever once it's all said and done (not even close yet). His dad was one of the best Expos ever, so it is only right. Vladdy has 3 kids already and I look forward to seeing one of them in the Vancouver lineup in 15 years.

Only downside is that Vlad is going to get paid enormous sums by someone in 3 years. AA would have him signed to a 10-year extension already. Atkins wanted to play it safe. Another terrible call. But let's enjoy it while we can.
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Anyone who wanted to deal him was crazy. But I was definitely starting to get worried that he wouldn't fully pan out.

Also, it takes two to want a long extension. Vlad Jr is not some struggling kid, so was never too likely to get a sweetheart deal like Acuna.
 
I was worried he’d be a fatty with a moderate compete/work ethic. He looks like a completely different player this year. He’s clearly put in the work to get better defensively. He’s so awesome.
 
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