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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

MyNameIsJonas said:
My order of untouchables would be Martin, Manoah, then Moreno, i'd be willing to headline with anyone else, including Pearson
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I'm definitely opening up more to dealing Pearson if the right deal came along. I don't want to, but if we have to, I can live with that. Manoah I would probably only not look to deal because he's a live arm right now, so dealing him means you need to replace him. I don't think his ceiling is as high, but he's looked good so I'll give him some more chances.
 
UWHabs said:
I'm definitely opening up more to dealing Pearson if the right deal came along. I don't want to, but if we have to, I can live with that. Manoah I would probably only not look to deal because he's a live arm right now, so dealing him means you need to replace him. I don't think his ceiling is as high, but he's looked good so I'll give him some more chances.
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Yeah, ceiling might not be there, but we need Manoah now. I'd be moving one of Kirk or Moreno (Kirk) as you dont need 2 high end C prospects. Im not even sure you need 1.
 
I’m still unconvinced that Kirk is an MLB C, and we don’t know that Moreno is yet either. Luckily their bats are both so good they can play elsewhere. But neither are going to have great trade value at the moment. With Kirk, teams are going to be wary paying for a 5’7” DH. Right now the Jays best MLB C is Reese McGuire. Jansen second, then a couple of prospects. Hold for now.

I’d trade Pearson as well but not for one year of Berrios.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Plesac might not be any good, just ridiculously controlled and i assume we'd be signing Berrios if we traded for him.
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I guess he might not be any good in the future but he has been so far? He’s not a high K guy obviously but this year’s drop in K% has coincided with a huge increase in GB% and even more soft contact.

Maybe there are other scouting or health issues there, and there are no sure things ever, but Plesac looks to me like a guy worth betting on. Also a little bit of a buy low guy now if the Indians are actually open to moving him.
 
manny said:
I’m still unconvinced that Kirk is an MLB C, and we don’t know that Moreno is yet either. Luckily their bats are both so good they can play elsewhere. But neither are going to have great trade value at the moment. With Kirk, teams are going to be wary paying for a 5’7” DH. Right now the Jays best MLB C is Reese McGuire. Jansen second, then a couple of prospects. Hold for now.

I’d trade Pearson as well but not for one year of Berrios.
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It's 1.5 years, and i see no reason why Berrios can't be extended tbh, any team that deals for him gets a leg up on that. It's also fairly easy to see how you could include a Rogers, Cruz, Colome or Simmonds into a Twin mega deal too
 
manny said:
I guess he might not be any good in the future but he has been so far? He’s not a high K guy obviously but this year’s drop in K% has coincided with a huge increase in GB% and even more soft contact.

Maybe there are other scouting or health issues there, and there are no sure things ever, but Plesac looks to me like a guy worth betting on. Also a little bit of a buy low guy now if the Indians are actually open to moving him.
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The danger is moving legit assets just because of the control. If he ends up being a 3/4 long term that's a terrible investment. Dont get me wrong, im intrigued too, but my fear is these guys preferring controlled and cheap over actually good. Berrios, is actually good, and you can keep him after 1.5 years, just have to pay him
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
It's 1.5 years, and i see no reason why Berrios can't be extended tbh, any team that deals for him gets a leg up on that. It's also fairly easy to see how you could include a Rogers, Cruz, Colome or Simmonds into a Twin mega deal too
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This year doesn’t count.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
The danger is moving legit assets just because of the control. If he ends up being a 3/4 long term that's a terrible investment. Dont get me wrong, im intrigued too, but my fear is these guys preferring controlled and cheap over actually good. Berrios, is actually good, and you can keep him after 1.5 years, just have to pay him
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Feelings on Plesac aside, I absolutely agree that they’ll prioritize control over skill. This is Ross “42 years of control” Atkins at the helm.
 
manny said:
This year doesn’t count.
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When Vlad has an OPS+ around 200, they have an elite run differential, their best SP and 2nd best position players are pending FA, and you are in year 1/6 with Springer, and 2/4 with Ryu this year absolutely counts. The Wild Card is still in play
 
If Plesac is their guy, i'd like to see what else i can attach to the deal, Karinchak maybe?

Also, if Cleveland still fancies themselves trying to contend then Lourdes' deal sure could line up well for them in a Plesac deal
 
They’re a .500 team going into the break with a pitching staff that has significantly overachieved. The X-W/L is great, but unfortunately they didn’t bank nearly enough wins from that great run differential in the first 86 games.
 
MLB draft is tonight. Jays lack a 2nd rounder so they lack the ability to take a tough to sign guy, or do their thing where they go underslot then take mega value in the 2nd. It's possible they go underslot and try to get mid round value. Name i hear alot linked to them is HS SP Anthony Solometo. Would be first ever HS SP ever taken by team
 
manny said:
They’re a .500 team going into the break with a pitching staff that has significantly overachieved. The X-W/L is great, but unfortunately they didn’t bank nearly enough wins from that great run differential in the first 86 games.
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I would argue Boston is even more smoke and mirrors. Yanks staff is a disaster, and Rays losing Glasnow is huge WC is very possible.

FWIW im not advocating pure rentals, but 1.5 year guys are very much worth it, especially if you have the minerals to sign them after
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
I would argue Boston is even more smoke and mirrors. Yanks staff is a disaster, and Rays losing Glasnow is huge WC is very possible.

FWIW im not advocating pure rentals, but 1.5 year guys are very much worth it, especially if you have the minerals to sign them after
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Yeah, that's why I feel there's a very interesting case to be made to slightly push your chips in this year. The ALE teams all have big potential problems. CWS in the Central has a better lineup on the IL than they can run out on a daily basis. Houston doesn't scare me as much as some years past. So I think if you can make it, you've got a good chance to go deep with a few more pieces.

But the problem is you have to make it. Jays are 4.5 out of a wildcard spot, and despite all the teams having flaws, a WC game is not easy. Like, NYY has a disaster of a pitching staff, other than their ace who is arguably the top pitcher in the AL. So assuming they line up Cole to start a WC game, you're already starting behind the 8-ball.

1.5 year guys like Berrios are good, because you can use them to try to make that late season push this year if you happen to get in, and you can use them for next year. I would be a little cautious giving up too much, because despite us wanting to potentially re-sign him, I will never take that for granted. But he's been a really good arm for a few years now, and would definitely be that solid 1B/2A arm we need.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
I would argue Boston is even more smoke and mirrors. Yanks staff is a disaster, and Rays losing Glasnow is huge WC is very possible.

FWIW im not advocating pure rentals, but 1.5 year guys are very much worth it, especially if you have the minerals to sign them after
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Boston has smoke and mirrorsed it’s way to 55 wins in the first 90 games.
(99 win pace). Even if the Sox play .500 the rest of the way the Jays would need to play at a 105-win pace after the break to pass them. They’re not that good.

Then there is Tampa, with a 7 game lead, the Yankees who are also ahead now, and Oakland, Seattle and Cleveland also ahead in the race for the second wildcard. It’s not a reasonable goal this year. I’d prefer they sell and increase their chances in the 2022-2025 window than give up assets now hoping for some desperate fantasy finish.
 
axlsalinger said:
I would not trade Pearson plus other high-end assets for Plesac. No thanks.

If it were up to me, Pearson wouldn't be going anywhere, but at least with Berrios there's a strong case to be made.
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You only trade Pearson if some GM out there still values him as one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. Otherwise just wait and see, IMO.
 
manny said:
Boston has smoke and mirrorsed it’s way to 55 wins in the first 90 games.
(99 win pace). Even if the Sox play .500 the rest of the way the Jays would need to play at a 105-win pace after the break to pass them. They’re not that good.

Then there is Tampa, with a 7 game lead, the Yankees who are also ahead now, and Oakland, Seattle and Cleveland also ahead in the race for the second wildcard. It’s not a reasonable goal this year. I’d prefer they sell and increase their chances in the 2022-2025 window than give up assets now hoping for some desperate fantasy finish.
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Yeah, in your video game world, would be fantastic to unload Semien for a boatload of pieces to come back stronger next year (assuming that you're not looking to give him the long-term deal that someone probably will). But the team is too close to let that happen, so more likely will be on the buyer side.

But yeah, given that it's still a very uphill climb, looking it over, I don't think you can really consider dealing Pearson. Sure, he's looked like glass, but he's still ranked as a top-10 prospect. You can't give that up. I mean, sure, if you're getting another elite player back with control, maybe you can think about it. But I can't even remember when the last time a top-10 prospect was traded. It just doesn't happen.
 
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