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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

He's 23. It's a disaster as some of us said all year. Varsho should never have cost that in a trade.
Also, a flawed idea was "We have depth at catcher, so let's address other areas" . You really shouldn't rush a trade to do that just because you think you have great depth at catcher. One of their catchers' offensive stats fell off a cliff after the all-star game last year and he's really fat. My advanced stats include height and weight LOL. Moreno is an athlete.
 
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Also, Jansen has always struggled to stay healthy.

But, I can get down with trading Moreno. Years of control shouldn't fucking matter to an alleged contender in that situation though. Nosho was the sweet spot of controlled risk between performance and cost.

Pussies make pussy decisions.
 
MindzEye said:
Also, Jansen has always struggled to stay healthy.

But, I can get down with trading Moreno. Years of control shouldn't fucking matter to an alleged contender in that situation though. Nosho was the sweet spot of controlled risk between performance and cost.

Pussies make pussy decisions.
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Yeah there’s a very strong argument that trading a highly touted prospect to improve now, is by far and away the smartest decision for a contender, given how rarely they live up to the billing.

…but you absolutely can’t deal em for someone who isn’t a proper game changer to your potential for winning now.

If your focus is cost control & value…keep Moreno, id your focus is on trying to win a title, you gotta move that upside/term for someone that moves the needle the most over the next 2-3 years.

The deal shouldn’t have 98% of fans instantly saying “we moved him for that??”







*unless it’s your “generational” prospects that everyone and their dog knows 2 years before they make the majors that they’re future studs.
 
I wouldn't have traded Moreno no matter what. Top 5 MLB prospect and our management creams their jeans over players under "Control". Given how fat Kirk is, I would have kept him and started a platoon. You can decide later who to trade.
 
Should’ve moved the fatty.

Tbh with our luck Kirk would’ve won the batting title with the team we traded him to.
 
It would be one thing if they made this trade to get the cheap Varsho and then went apeshit on a 40M AAV FA to add to the team, but they opted to spread it around on a #3/4 SP (granted a good one) and one and done low risk deals that needed to be immediately replaced.
 
Lucky for them it doesn't take much risky behavior to build an 89 win team for 250 million and they seem to have mastered that ability
 
MindzEye said:
Lucky for them it doesn't take much risky behavior to build an 89 win team for 250 million and they seem to have mastered that ability
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Mets, Padres, and Yankees this year proved that apparently it does take some skill to put a winner together even with a big budget.
 
My main problem with the Moreno trade was that it was exactly what they always do—their first priority is always to manage downside risk. Moreno was a top prospect that they could afford to move, so of course they traded him for an unremarkable, controllable player.

Maybe the worst part is that they had just signed Kiermaier to a short-term deal as a FA. Because getting a defense-first OF in FA is not difficult.
 
manny said:
My main problem with the Moreno trade was that it was exactly what they always do—their first priority is always to manage downside risk. Moreno was a top prospect that they could afford to move, so of course they traded him for an unremarkable, controllable player.

Maybe the worst part is that they had just signed Kiermaier to a short-term deal as a FA. Because getting a defense-first OF in FA is not difficult.
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I mean the theory behind it was they hoped that Varsho had some more upside than he showed. For a fast guy, he runs a terrible babip. With thr shift ban, maybe he could boost the average by a little. If you have someone with his defense, but who can put up even a .250 batting average with 25-30hrs, that's worth more than a big catcher prospect.

The reality of Varsho we see now is that there's a reason he posted those numbers, and they probably were inflated by stuff and not primed for a breakout. Combined with Moreno actually tapping into his power, way more than he showed in 2022, and also improving from plus to plus-plus defense, yeah, not good. Never mind Lourdes being a useful piece and not just a throw-in, that doesn't help either.

I think it's actually a deal they were trying to swing for the fences on. They tried to sell high on a prospect who very easily could have been the next Joey Bart. But he's looking more like he could be the next Buster Posey instead.
 
www.mlb.com

Touch ‘em all, Joe! Revisiting Carter's iconic World Series homer

It was Oct. 23, 1993. Bottom of the ninth, Game 6 of the World Series between the Philadelphia Phillies and the defending World Series champion Toronto Blue Jays. Phillies closer Mitch Williams on the mound, trying to protect a 6-5 lead and force a decisive Game 7. A walk to
www.mlb.com www.mlb.com

The Memory is still great 30 years later!
 
How often do truly elite bat to ball hit tool prospects actually fail though?

I understand the concern about the temporary power outage lowering his ceiling, but the floor was a good hitter with above average D behind the plate
 
manny said:
My main problem with the Moreno trade was that it was exactly what they always do—their first priority is always to manage downside risk. Moreno was a top prospect that they could afford to move, so of course they traded him for an unremarkable, controllable player.

Maybe the worst part is that they had just signed Kiermaier to a short-term deal as a FA. Because getting a defense-first OF in FA is not difficult.
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This is a very good take. They could have gotten a better player than Varsho, but they went with control and a worse player. If that was what was going to be done do not trade Moreno and give it more time.
Kirk better be on some diet this offseason.
 
Some positive news on the Jays front:



Renos last year were great, but you still had to suspend disbelief a bit with the 100-level concourse being junk and seats still not pointing toward the action.
 
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