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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

Deckie007 said:
Not sure the amount of money spent is really the issue. Plenty of teams spending less than the Jays having success.
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Yeah, they opened the wallet this year, and the Jays had a top 10 payroll. Hopefully that can continue.

The problem with the team this year is that the core that was supposed to be good flopped. Vlad, Manoah, Kirk, Springer, Varsho I think going into the season people would have expected they would be most of the top performers on the team, and collective they were poop.
 
Leafin' said:
2020 - Zero playoff wins
2021 - missed playoffs
2022 - Zero playoff wins
2023 - Zero playoff wins

Did I get that right?
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so i guess the argument is that making the playoffs in a 162-game season has nothing to do with management or payroll, and is only due to the players. Whereas losing a 1 or 2 game playoff series has nothing to do with the players, and is only the fault of management/payroll.

Gotcha. (y)
 
axlsalinger said:
so i guess the argument is that making the playoffs in a 162-game season has nothing to do with management or payroll, and is only due to the players. Whereas losing a 1 or 2 game playoff series has nothing to do with the players, and is only the fault of management/payroll.

Gotcha. (y)
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Hey man I’ve given them ample time to get this right. They have not. Time to move on.
 
Leafin' said:
Hey man I’ve given them ample time to get this right. They have not. Time to move on.
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That's fair, never said they're amazing or should have a lifetime contract. I don't even have a problem replacing Atkins. It just gets old reading the same old hate posts acting like they're totally incompetent, when that simply isn't the case. They built a pretty good team - but at the same time, not good enough. But it is up to the players to perform in short samples.
 
axlsalinger said:
That's fair, never said they're amazing or should have a lifetime contract. I don't even have a problem replacing Atkins. It just gets old reading the same old hate posts acting like they're totally incompetent, when that simply isn't the case. They built a pretty good team - but at the same time, not good enough. But it is up to the players to perform in short samples.
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Yeah, initially I was pessimistic, and did hate a lot of the the stuff they did early (or more accurately, a lot of the stuff they didn't do earlier on). Not shifting to a rebuild quick enough, not being aggressive at filling holes, etc...

But the last few years, I warmed up a little. Not like "OMG they're great", but slowly they put together a pretty solid group. Coming into this year, most of the projection systems had the Jays as one of if not the best records in the league. And they would have, if Manoah/Guerrero/Kirk combined for more than 2.2 WAR this year. I mean, even if you don't have Vlad breaking out better than he'd done before, I think even a moderately reasonable guess at the 3 of them would be 4 WAR each. If those 3 guys play to those expectations, that's 10 WAR. If you take the current team and add 10 wins to it, you're looking at a 99 win team. That's not even counting anyone else like Varsho or Springer who under-performed. But I don't think you can count everyone who under-performed without also taking away from guys like Belt, Schneider, Kiermeier, etc who did better than expected.

Now, that all being said, I do think this team did fail quite hard this year, and losing the Varsho deal so handily stings a little extra. Definitely management needs to be on a super short leash. Especially as the team is really getting into some big decisions on guys like Guerrero and Bichette, I don't really want Atkins+co right now to be the ones to make those decisions. But they need to do enough to get this team a lot more into the TB/BAL reaches, where they're fighting for the division the last day of the season, not fighting for the playoff spot right to the end.
 
This rationalization of Atkins and Shapiro just strikes me as the result of really low expectations. They’re about to go into their 9th year, and they’ve just barely squeaked into the playoffs now a few times in a league where 12/30 teams make the playoffs. They have a top-5, luxury tax payroll. There doesn’t seem to be any one thing that they do particularly well. Almost all the value they’ve added has been through free agency and even there they’ve been hit and miss.

Yeah, it could be worse. And if Rogers didn’t open their pocketbooks like never before, it would be.

It’s OK to expect better.
 
The Rangers lost 102 games in 2021.

I’ll admit it seemed like a bad idea to me when they gave all that money to Semien and then Seager right after that. But that was probably more about the franchise than the players.

Semien and Seager combined for 14.3 WAR this year and won them a WS. The contracts will probably age badly, but it’s already worth it.
 
manny said:
The Rangers lost 102 games in 2021.

I’ll admit it seemed like a bad idea to me when they gave all that money to Semien and then Seager right after that. But that was probably more about the franchise than the players.

Semien and Seager combined for 14.3 WAR this year and won them a WS. The contracts will probably age badly, but it’s already worth it.
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Yeah, that's what you want. If it leads you to a championship, whatever hardship later will be worth it.
 
axlsalinger said:
That's fair, never said they're amazing or should have a lifetime contract. I don't even have a problem replacing Atkins. It just gets old reading the same old hate posts acting like they're totally incompetent, when that simply isn't the case. They built a pretty good team - but at the same time, not good enough. But it is up to the players to perform in short samples.
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Core bats choked again , you can replace regime all you want

You cant predict anything when it matters

Braves should of destroyed the league ....big boys disappeared
 
For his maga tweets? Shapiro is a 60 yr old multi millionaire who bitched and moaned behind the scenes about equity initiatives, urban biking programs, and latin ball players having fun.

What exactly do you think his politics are?
 
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