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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I still don't trust 39 year olds, but everyone was saying that about Nelson Cruz, so maybe there are just weird outlines out there....
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Sincerely, fuck off.

He went pretty early and hard for fucking IKF and his 2/15, Green at 1/10, and KK at 1/11.

One of those deals is the clear cut, derp potato worst of the offseason that has other GM's openly mocking Ross.

The other two, are meh to bad, and even worse when you factor in team need and fit.

Now he signs Turner over JDM, cause presumably JDM was asking for too much, where they preferred the lesser cost ( that said its entirely possible that these guys actually like the fact Turner has a glove, i mean shit, they think IKF is a good option as OF4 and that Biggio is good in multiple spots). The Mets were clearly good with either, or fucking Belt who still doesnt have a job and probably takes less than JDM

They paid 8M AAV to a guy who's a complete wild card and probably wotn make the team until June, and has never thrown a pitch in the majors.

Every last move this guys made this offseason was either rushed, ill advised, an overpay or any combination of the 3
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We are talking about JD Martinez, you dumbfuck. I have acknowledge multiple times that they overpaid IKF, probably because you bring it up 17 times a day. I don't agree that the others are overpays. I understand and agree that they probably didn't need KK, as analysis I am fine with the price because he's still an elite defender and obviously these guys put a premium on defense which may be a market inefficiency judging by the fact that people like you like to pretend it has no impact on baseball, and as a fan I really enjoyed having KK on the team last year. Chad Green has high-end skills, that's the price for a really good veteran reliever on a 1 year deal.

You can argue that they should have allocated that money for a different skillset, but everyone aside from IKF was signed at a reasonable price. It is stupid to keep arguing otherwise. And many people on this board including myself have been saying for a few years they should spend a little more on high-end bullpen arms.

And also, go fuck yourself.
 
521 PAs are a full season. You just need to, what does the NBA call it.... load manage him. It is not like Martinez is a young man either.
 
axlsalinger said:
We are talking about JD Martinez, you dumbfuck. I have acknowledge multiple times that they overpaid IKF, probably because you bring it up 17 times a day. I don't agree that the others are overpays. I understand and agree that they probably didn't need KK, as analysis I am fine with the price because he's still an elite defender and obviously these guys put a premium on defense which may be a market inefficiency judging by the fact that people like you like to pretend it has no impact on baseball, and as a fan I really enjoyed having KK on the team last year. Chad Green has high-end skills, that's the price for a really good veteran reliever on a 1 year deal.

You can argue that they should have allocated that money for a different skillset, but everyone aside from IKF was signed at a reasonable price. It is stupid to keep arguing otherwise.

And also, go fuck yourself.
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Martinez clubs 30+ HR as a lock, we might have one dude that does that.

Yes, i hate that these cowards overreacted to a loss to the Mariners and starting jerking off to run prevention so hard that they felt the need to give up their top prospect for an elite glove CF with a questionable bat only to plug him in LF and sign another all glove CF two years in a row ( to maybe a slight overpay, certainly not a bargain) and feel the need to add a utility infielder that cant hit ( lets ignore the contract for a moment) when they had a roster full of AAA guys who can defend and cant hit.

They chose Turner over JDM and Soler, maybe because of contract, but probably because they have this stupid hardon for versatility. Hell, even Biggio, if they are that pressed up for salary reasons should have been a trade or non tender candidate at 7.5M, because if your farm cant produce either an all stick or all glove INF out of AAA as a 1.5 win guy, you probably shouldnt have a job.

As much as i hate how they misjudged the market, i really really hate how they choose to value players now. Paying pretty big money to number 2-4 SP in FA and putting a crazy emphasis on defense and useless levels of position flexibility.

Its like they are replicating their Cleveland teams only, not with a budget now
 
axlsalinger said:
every team that signed anyone got played. Should have just waited until March 21!
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Weird take. Beliinger signed in late Feb. Chapman in early March. Snell a few days ago. JDM just now. The guys Atkins was desperate to lock up will start playing regular season baseball at the exact same time, just for much more money proportional to their value. What is the benefit to Atkins in jumping the market? Better spring training attendance? Better pre-season ticket sales?

hmmmm… Maybe Atkins isn’t the only one being played…
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Martinez clubs 30+ HR as a lock, we might have one dude that does that.

Yes, i hate that these cowards overreacted to a loss to the Mariners and starting jerking off to run prevention so hard that they felt the need to give up their top prospect for an elite glove CF with a questionable bat only to plug him in LF and sign another all glove CF two years in a row ( to maybe a slight overpay, certainly not a bargain) and feel the need to add a utility infielder that cant hit ( lets ignore the contract for a moment) when they had a roster full of AAA guys who can defend and cant hit.

They chose Turner over JDM and Soler, maybe because of contract, but probably because they have this stupid hardon for versatility. Hell, even Biggio, if they are that pressed up for salary reasons should have been a trade or non tender candidate at 7.5M, because if your farm cant produce either an all stick or all glove INF out of AAA as a 1.5 win guy, you probably shouldnt have a job.

As much as i hate how they misjudged the market, i really really hate how they choose to value players now. Paying pretty big money to number 2-4 SP in FA and putting a crazy emphasis on defense and useless levels of position flexibility.

Its like they are replicating their Cleveland teams only, not with a budget now
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I am okay with IKF as a super-util guy, his defense is better than any other option we had for the role, and can function as a very poor man's Chappy if no one else takes over the job. I think that's probably worth $5-6m, so okay they overpaid a little bit with other teams bidding. But no one in their right mind is going to wait until March 21 to fill out their team. If you think that's a valid strategy, then that is your prerogative, but I think it's fucking absurd. Especially if while pursuing this strategy you have to get on your knees for Boras. No thank you. We will never know how interested they were to sign JD Mart, and we will likely never know if he had any interest in coming here, unless grossly overpaid. However, very clearly it is he and his greedy agent who grossly overestimated the market with ridiculous demands (if I remember correctly, JD's reported demand was $50M over 2 or 3 years).

Justin Turner is a great clubhouse guy they've pursued before, i think that's a reason they wanted him ahead of any defensive "versatility" he may have left. He's still here largely for his bat and has hit very well up until this point. Also, defense isn't sexy but it is underrated in Major League Baseball to at least some extent. It has been statistically proven that it's extremely helpful to a pitching staff.
 
manny said:
Weird take. Beliinger signed in late Feb. Chapman in early March. Snell a few days ago. JDM just now. The guys Atkins was desperate to lock up will start playing regular season baseball at the exact same time, just for much more money proportional to their value. What is the benefit to Atkins in jumping the market? Better spring training attendance? Better pre-season ticket sales?

hmmmm… Maybe Atkins isn’t the only one being played…
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you're right, teams should just wait until March 21 to add any players. It seems clear that barring a massive overpay, Bellinger was always going back to the Cubs anyway. And if I remember correctly, you didn't want to sign him. Snell cost himself a lot of money by not signing earlier, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. They could have waited for Chapman, but according to rumours he turned down a much larger offer from Toronto than the one he eventually signed. Thank you for your service, goodbye.
 
axlsalinger said:
I am okay with IKF as a super-util guy, his defense is better than any other option we had for the role, and can function as a very poor man's Chappy if no one else takes over the job. I think that's probably worth $5-6m, so okay they overpaid a little bit with other teams bidding. But no one in their right mind is going to wait until March 21 to fill out their team. If you think that's a valid strategy, then that is your prerogative, but I think it's fucking absurd. Especially if while pursuing this strategy you have to get on your knees for Boras. No thank you. We will never know how interested they were to sign JD Mart, and we will likely never know if he had any interest in coming here, unless grossly overpaid. However, very clearly it is he and his greedy agent who grossly overestimated the market with ridiculous demands (if I remember correctly, JD's reported demand was $50M over 2 or 3 years).

Justin Turner is a great clubhouse guy they've pursued before, i think that's a reason they wanted him ahead of any defensive "versatility" he may have left. He's still here largely for his bat and has hit very well up until this point. Also, defense isn't sexy but it is underrated in Major League Baseball to at least some extent. It has been statistically proven that it's extremely helpful to a pitching staff.
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Im not okay with him when we had other needs and other guys that could do the job okay enough. In fact, his only spot i like him is SS, where he will never play. The notion of sticking his bat in a corner OF is flat out insane, it's terrible. He's here to be the everyday 3B i think, which is also fucking terrible.

Yes, my problem with them is they didnt prefer JDM to Turner, and they do value his defense, which is absolutely useless at 3B the only place they might use him
 
axlsalinger said:
you're right, teams should just wait until March 21 to add any players. It seems clear that barring a massive overpay, Bellinger was always going back to the Cubs anyway. And if I remember correctly, you didn't want to sign him. Snell cost himself a lot of money by not signing earlier, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. They could have waited for Chapman, but according to rumours he turned down a much larger offer from Toronto than he one he eventually signed. Thank you for your service, goodbye.
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I didnt want Bellinger either, but i would rather they take a swing on him during this last 2 year window, even if the contract bust then be the absolute coward pussies they were.
 
axlsalinger said:
you're right, teams should just wait until March 21 to add any players. It seems clear that barring a massive overpay, Bellinger was always going back to the Cubs anyway. And if I remember correctly, you didn't want to sign him. Snell cost himself a lot of money by not signing earlier, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. They could have waited for Chapman, but according to rumours he turned down a much larger offer from Toronto than the one he eventually signed. Thank you for your service, goodbye.
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They could have had Gio Urshela or Amed Rosario, better bats, and serviceable gloves for 3M.

Or JD Davis, who i know you dont love for some reason, probably because it allows you to remain the lone voice of reason regarding the IKF deal, but alas, he too, much better option, way less money, and before you tell me that he wasn't signed until March whatever, they could have clearly traded for him much earlier
 
axlsalinger said:
you're right, teams should just wait until March 21 to add any players. It seems clear that barring a massive overpay, Bellinger was always going back to the Cubs anyway. And if I remember correctly, you didn't want to sign him. Snell cost himself a lot of money by not signing earlier, I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make here. They could have waited for Chapman, but according to rumours he turned down a much larger offer from Toronto than the one he eventually signed. Thank you for your service, goodbye.
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It’s interesting that to defend your weird smartest-guy-in-the-room takes, you always resort to rebutting arguments nobody made. In this case, “teams should wait until March 21 to sign any players.”

Whatever works for you.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
Im not okay with him when we had other needs and other guys that could do the job okay enough. In fact, his only spot i like him is SS, where he will never play. The notion of sticking his bat in a corner OF is flat out insane, it's terrible. He's here to be the everyday 3B i think, which is also fucking terrible.

Yes, my problem with them is they didnt prefer JDM to Turner, and they do value his defense, which is absolutely useless at 3B the only place they might use him
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I figured out you're not okay with him from the fact that you keep re-stating the same point 17 times a day. Let's see how it plays out. I still think we are going to see more IKF and Clement (and perhaps eventually Barger) than we will see Turner at 3B. He could play some 2B and might actually be usable there.
 
When people look back on this FA market in a few years, they’ll see that a bunch of guys waited too long and ended up taking way less money than expected, and the teams that were patient benefited.

It’s not going to reflect well on our current admin, that’s all. Hopefully they’ll be long gone by then.
 
axlsalinger said:
I figured out you're not okay with him from the fact that you keep re-stating the same point 17 times a day. Let's see how it plays out. I still think we are going to see more IKF and Clement (and perhaps eventually Barger) than we will see Turner at 3B. He could play some 2B and might actually be usable there.
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The fact im holding out hope that Ernie fucking Clement can win the starting 3B gig should tell you all you need to know.

IKF was redundent, expensive, and shit....wild combination, their philosiphy on how to eval players made the team worse. I cant make it any more clear than that.

I also have zero faith whatsoever that John Schneider and the front office is going to give IKF a short leash. He/They have shown zero ability to optimize a bench.
 
MyNameIsJonas said:
They could have had Gio Urshela or Amed Rosario, better bats, and serviceable gloves for 3M.

Or JD Davis, who i know you dont love for some reason, probably because it allows you to remain the lone voice of reason regarding the IKF deal, but alas, he too, much better option, way less money, and before you tell me that he wasn't signed until March whatever, they could have clearly traded for him much earlier
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Obviously they prefer the D of IKF over the bats of those guys, I've heard a lot of negative comments about Rosario's defense and no teams seemed particularly interested him based on the amount he eventually signed for. It's okay to prefer him if you want, but to keep suggesting over and over and over again that any GM who didn't sign Amed Rosario is some kind of village idiot is just silly. And I just don't care enough about Urshela to continue typing, he would be fine in the Biggio role I guess, but we already have Biggio on the team.

Not sure what you are saying in your JD Davis comment, I've always liked him. The lack of a roster spot is why they didn't sign him.
 
axlsalinger said:
Obviously they prefer the D of IKF over the bats of those guys, I've heard a lot of negative comments about Rosario's defense and no teams seemed particularly interested him based on the amount he eventually signed for. It's okay to prefer him if you want, but to keep suggesting over and over and over again that any GM who didn't sign Amed Rosario is some kind of village idiot is just silly. And I just don't care enough about Urshela to continue typing, he would be fine in the Biggio role I guess, but we already have Biggio on the team.
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Any GM who chooses IKF at 2/15 over Urshela at 1/3 is indeed a village idiot.

And i'd have Urshela in the starting 3B role for 3M hoping to get 2 WAR out of him, and Biggio in the Biggio role, or i would have traded/cut Biggio, put that 8M into actually making the roster better, and giving Schneider the everyday 2B gig
 
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