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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

It's all speculation without knowing the details. For all we know he may have asked for 10/400 years ago and never budged. Is a 1B worth that? Probably not.

I am in the "sign the man" camp, and this should already be done. Howevah - not if it means a ridiculous overpay. He is proving he's worth a hefty contract (was that the case at the end of April? Perhaps not.) Long run of good but not great, with the high point being a massive power streak in AAA parks in 2021 (Buffalo and Florida)

As long as it's a semi reasonable ask, hopefully they lock him up this off-season. Face of the franchise and he wants to be here.
 
axlsalinger said:
It's all speculation without knowing the details. For all we know he may have asked for 10/400 years ago and never budged. Is a 1B worth that? Probably not.
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Hmmm I think it’s pretty reasonable to assume that Vladdy wasn’t insisting on an extension that was, at the time, about 350% more than any other pre-arbitration extension in baseball history.

What we know is that Vladdy has always liked playing in Toronto, and that Atkins coined a very special term to explain how the Jays’ young stars had to do their part to protect Rogers Communications Inc. from downside risk.
 
axlsalinger said:
It's all speculation without knowing the details. For all we know he may have asked for 10/400 years ago and never budged. Is a 1B worth that? Probably not.

I am in the "sign the man" camp, and this should already be done. Howevah - not if it means a ridiculous overpay. He is proving he's worth a hefty contract (was that the case at the end of April? Perhaps not.) Long run of good but not great, with the high point being a massive power streak in AAA parks in 2021 (Buffalo and Florida)

As long as it's a semi reasonable ask, hopefully they lock him up this off-season. Face of the franchise and he wants to be here.
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I see we are already preparing making excuses for the front office when they deem this too risky and trade him for some 2 win ceiling 24 year olds and a hip new C prospect.
 
Also for all the Roger/SN minions talking about how Gausman/Berrios/Bassitt trio can anchor a rotation for a competitive team in 25, that at best looks pretty god damn mid and all for 60M.
 
It’s their complete failure in player development more than anything. They’ve developed next to no talent internally so had to rely exclusively on free agency to build a pitching staff. Gausman-Berrios-Bassit-Kikuchi cost $74 million per year. That’s a bit more than Tampa spent on their entire team to win 99 games last year, and $13 million more than Baltimore spent to win 101.

Sometimes I wish Rogers had continued to be more tightwad with these guys. It would have exposed how bad they were much earlier. Of course having owners that will spend big is better than the opposite, but they really chose the wrong people. Hopefully this decade of failure doesn’t make Rogers reluctant to give the same amount financial leeway to the next group.
 
CH1 said:
and to think the knock on AA was that he traded too many of the prospects he found

and that he had no renovations in his portfolio
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Well, that was Shapiro’s knock on AA anyway. He promised a better development program that would consistently feed talent to the MLB team. And despite failing to accomplish that for 10 years in Cleveland, they bought it.

AA also wasn’t allowed to play in the deep end of the FA pool like these guys. Instead of being given the flexibility to just sign free agents like Reyes and Buehrle, he had to trade for them, then basically dare ownership to cut payroll. I don’t think they liked that kind of “managing up.” If they had just given him big free agent money up front, AA could have (and would have) used that prospect capital to improve the team in other ways.
 
CH1 said:
and to think the knock on AA was that he traded too many of the prospects he found

and that he had no renovations in his portfolio
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The funny thing is, all those prospects busted and Shatkins later traded Moreno for no reason.
I recall in 2015' when Shatkins was introduced the timing felt so wrong.
 
Absolutely scolded AA for trading prospects, almost all of which busted or became nothing crazy and he did so in a time where he knew it was the time for that core to go for it and supported them. Shatkins is too risk adverse and analytical to ever get the right team to that point and then identify when to really go for it. They’ve also pissed away their chance at locking up Vlad. AA would’ve had Vladdy signed long ago to a decent price too I bet.
 
Shapiro thinks like everyone in baseball which guarantees that without significant luck his results will also be middle of the road

No edge = mediocre results
 
Also prospect trades are fine if they accomplish what they’re supposed to. Daniel Norris didn’t have to bust for the David Price trade to be great. The Moreno trade actually made the Jays worse and the Diamondbacks better immediately, and it is only going to get worse.

The Berrios trade was one prospect deal that looked fine in hindsight because the top-5 pick they traded busted. But the second prospect in that deal, Simeon Woods-Richardson, may actually be better than Berrios right now (and Martin and SWR are probably both going to get playoff reps this year).

The Matt Chapman trade was pretty good. But then they let him walk so that they could spread the risk between IKF and Justin Turner. Chapman is first in MLB in bWAR for 3B btw. Third in fWAR. Still a star.

Just failure after failure for these guys. And yet they don’t seem to be going anywhere.
 
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