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OT: The Toronto Blue Jays

I guess I'm technically not allowed to post this without clearing it with Zeke and Mindz first, maybe if I say SHAPIRO SUCKS! FIRE ATKINS!! EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE AND I HATE EVERYONE!!! Does that make me one of the cool kids now?

But I just wanted to add that the reason AA traded for and later signed Matt Olson to that contract was because he went through the exact same scenario with Freddie Freeman that we have with Vladdy. Homegrown star, super nice popular guy, asked for too much money and despite negotiations down to the wire AA LET HIM GO TO FREE AGENCY. He should have been fired for that, obviously.

Freddie signed for 6/162 and Olson signed for 8/168 two and a half years ago. Pete Alonso just got 2/54 with an optout a week ago. These are 3 of the game's best first basemen. And yet we can't even talk about whether Vladdy is worth $500 million. Just have to "trust him bro" because that's what he thinks he's worth.
 
Freeman was 32 when he left Atlanta. And yeah, AA traded for Matt Olson, who is almost as good, to replace Freeman right away. Probably not the best comparison to what’s going on here.

If you want to draw a parallel for what AA did with a young star player, it’s the Acuna contract.
 
You also know it's extremely unlikely Vladdy would have signed for anything remotely close to the Acuna contract. And that the contract given to Ozzie Albies was exploitative.
 
anyway, I'm done arguing about this. I already said that I would give him 10/400, or 12/425. Despite the fact that I would normally never give that kind of contract to a 1B, I love Vladdy and agree that he is an elite talent. If Shapiro and Atkins didn't get up to at least $400 in these negotiations, they should be fired immediately. However, I don't believe in giving players a blank cheque either. The whole situation sucks, and fuck everyone involved for not finding a way to get this done.
 
axlsalinger said:
You also know it's extremely unlikely Vladdy would have signed for anything remotely close to the Acuna contract. And that the contract given to Ozzie Albies was exploitative.
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I’m not really interested in re-litigating all that. I won’t pretend to know what Vladdy would have signed for long term at 21, but sure, maybe it would have taken twice what the Braves gave Acuna. Regardless, they’ve had 6 years to sign him and not let it get to this point. Seems everyone is in agreement that it was a failure.
 
manny said:
I’m not really interested in re-litigating all that. I won’t pretend to know what Vladdy would have signed for long term at 21, but sure, maybe it would have taken twice what the Braves gave Acuna. Regardless, they’ve had 6 years to sign him and not let it get to this point. Seems everyone is in agreement that it was a failure.
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and yes, I agree with this 100%.
 
It didn't have to be the Acuna contract, or obviously the Albies contract. But he was never going to get cheaper than he was then. He's gotten progressively more and more expensive since then and now, a year out from UFA, it's pure open market rate if you want his services.

We fucked up, full stop.
 
Acuna contract averages 12.5 per year for 8 years.. Signed after his big rookie 20yr old year.

we've already paid vlad an average of 18m over the four years since his big 21yr old year.
 
MindzEye said:
Not if his client expressed a preference to play for a team intent on being competitive. Which from what we've heard this winter, has been pretty common among free agents.
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Sure a preference but Sant would have taken more money elsewhere if offered

This was 2 months into free agency , get what you can
 
GEEMAN said:
Sure a preference but Sant would have taken more money elsewhere if offered

This was 2 months into free agency , get what you can
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By all reports there were multiple teams interested. If the money was similar enough from a few, organization preference definitely comes into play.
 
axlsalinger said:
I guess I'm technically not allowed to post this without clearing it with Zeke and Mindz first, maybe if I say SHAPIRO SUCKS! FIRE ATKINS!! EVERYTHING IS TERRIBLE AND I HATE EVERYONE!!! Does that make me one of the cool kids now?

But I just wanted to add that the reason AA traded for and later signed Matt Olson to that contract was because he went through the exact same scenario with Freddie Freeman that we have with Vladdy. Homegrown star, super nice popular guy, asked for too much money and despite negotiations down to the wire AA LET HIM GO TO FREE AGENCY. He should have been fired for that, obviously.

Freddie signed for 6/162 and Olson signed for 8/168 two and a half years ago. Pete Alonso just got 2/54 with an optout a week ago. These are 3 of the game's best first basemen. And yet we can't even talk about whether Vladdy is worth $500 million. Just have to "trust him bro" because that's what he thinks he's worth.
Click to expand...
Problem is, they’re not AA and will not just replace with another all star. They’ll put some bum in that can play defence and hit .205 or platoon cheap guys. Inept front office
 
Best Jays Position Players age 21-25 (asterisk = started later than age 21)

clear top-5 imo

* McGriff* (23-25): 1664pa, 150wrc+, 14.3war, 5.6war/650
* Guerrero (21-25): 3026pa, 142wrc+, 16.7war, 3.6war/650
* Olerud (21-25): 2631pa, 136wrc+, 18.3war, 4.5war/650
* Bichette (21-25): 2328pa, 126wrc+, 15.9war, 4.4war/650
* Alomar (21-25): 3421pa, 121wrc+, 23.1war, 4.4war/650

next 5 imo

* Barfield (21-25): 1938pa, 119wrc+, 14.3war, 4.8war/650
* Wells* (22-25): 2078pa, 112wrc+, 9.6war, 3.0war/650
* Kirk* (22-25): 1563pa, 109wrc+, 10.2war, 4.2war/650
* Moseby (21-25): 2907pa, 108wrc+, 17.6war, 3.9war/650
* Fernandez* (22-25): 2279pa, 104wrc+, 14.4war, 4.1war/650
 
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