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OT: World Politics

MindzEye said:
I think the difference here is who the failure can be blamed on. The system of Israel intelligence, or Bibi personally. If Egypt isn't full of shit here (and I see reasons for and against them being full of shit), it's on Bibi personally. If they are though, I think you may not see Bibi take the brunt of the blame, similar to how GWB didn't eat the 9/11 failure in any sort of politically damaging way.
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I mean I think Bibi gets the blame no matter how you skin the cat.

troops weren't in Gaza cause they were in the West Bank appeasing his cabinet mates bloodlust
 
Montana said:
to the point that one side would call all three of us anti-semites, and the other would say we’re right-wing nut jobs that support genocide….if we shared the above opinions on Twitter. 🤣
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That is the juvenile level of discourse in North America with regard to Israel. Any criticism of Israeli government policy will get you branded as an anti-Semite, as if religion has anything to do with it, and an attack by Hamas instantly justifies whatever fascist, draconian steps Netanyahu takes. Calling Bibi a fascist isn't anti-Semitic, it's a statement of objective fact. When I call Tim Scott an Uncle Tom because he supports Trump, I'm not being racist, I'm being accurate. The people who toss labels like "anti-Semite" are the ones with no decent counter-arguments.
 
MindzEye said:
I've generally kept my mouth shut regarding Israel/Palestine because I have natural tendency to dislike authority, and a natural dislike towards whomever I see as the aggressor/oppressor in a situation and I know that this is complicated fuckshow but didn't want my jewish friends (here and in the real world) to mistake that for anti semetism or similar

But fuck me if whatever sympathy I have for the Palestinian cause didn't evaporate when I saw some of those videos man. It's a sympathetic emotional reaction that I don't think I'll ever get back.
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Just remember that the IDF and the pro-Israel media do their best to keep the bad things they do off of social media and the 6 o'clock news. We've seen precious little of the things that have been done to Palestinian civilians for years under Israeli rule. There's nothing that happened at that music festival that hasn't happened before to Palestinians. We react viscerally to the things we actually get to see.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Just remember that the IDF and the pro-Israel media do their best to keep the bad things they do off of social media and the 6 o'clock news. We've seen precious little of the things that have been done to Palestinian civilians for years under Israeli rule. There's nothing that happened at that music festival that hasn't happened before to Palestinians. We react viscerally to the things we actually get to see.
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I'll say this once, nicely, but on this issue, respectfully, keep your mouth shut instead of spouting off on things where you do not know at all what you are talking about.

and just to be perfectly clear, you do not know what the fuck you are talking about here.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
That is the juvenile level of discourse in North America with regard to Israel. Any criticism of Israeli government policy will get you branded as an anti-Semite, as if religion has anything to do with it, and an attack by Hamas instantly justifies whatever fascist, draconian steps Netanyahu takes. Calling Bibi a fascist isn't anti-Semitic, it's a statement of objective fact. When I call Tim Scott an Uncle Tom because he supports Trump, I'm not being racist, I'm being accurate. The people who toss labels like "anti-Semite" are the ones with no decent counter-arguments.
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while I agree, I also think it’s perfectly understandable & justified to be purely be in one’s emotions at a time like this…..and not be particularly keen on hearing ANY critiques of Israel or Netanyahu. Or wanting to get into a nuanced discussion atm.

Like that Harvard letter is fucking lunacy…..as is just about any argument that attempts to justify Hamas’ actions….


having said that, I’m personally curious what the internal logic is of any Palestinian who doesn’t believe in the eradication of all Jews, but feels so persecuted that it leads to them to feel justified supporting Hamas in any fashion.
 
Wayward DP said:
I mean I think Bibi gets the blame no matter how you skin the cat.
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100%

I’m wrong on this I’m sure…..but on top of just flat out not believing the claim…..it just strikes me as ‘off’ that Egypt would come out so quickly saying “I tried to warn em”….even if 100, what benefit does that provide exactly?

Imagine Canada doing that on 9/12?
 
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WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
So the correspondent didn't actually see any dead babies herself, it's merely what the "commander" told her.

I'm starting to get a "the Huns invaded Belgium and raped nuns, circa 1914" vibe here.
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let's get this on record - is it your view that the Israeli regime is fabricating a story that babies were beheaded?

what about the photos of women bleeding from the crotch, being paraded around the Gaza strip? are those photoshopped?
 
Wayward DP said:
I'll say this once, nicely, but on this issue, respectfully, keep your mouth shut instead of spouting off on things where you do not know at all what you are talking about.

and just to be perfectly clear, you do not know what the fuck you are talking about here.
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Stop pretending that either side has any virtue here. Neither of them are on the side of the angels. Whatever ethical credibility Israel had was spent a long time ago thanks to scumbags like Netanyahu. Obviously, a response to this attack is warranted and I really don't care how heavy handed Israel decides to get. I'm all for them bombing Iran as well as pulverizing Hamas. But let's stop pretending that Israel's skirts are clean here. They aren't hated by their neighbors for no good reason. You could make that argument 50 years ago maybe, but not today and certainly not after a decade of Netanyahu's quasi-fascism.
 
Montana said:
while I agree, I also think it’s perfectly understandable & justified to be purely be in one’s emotions at a time like this…..and not be particularly keen on hearing ANY critiques of Israel or Netanyahu. Or wanting to get into a nuanced discussion atm.

Like that Harvard letter is fucking lunacy…..as is just about any argument that attempts to justify Hamas’ actions….


having said that, I’m personally curious what the internal logic is of any Palestinian who doesn’t believe in the eradication of all Jews, but feels so persecuted that it leads to them to feel justified supporting Hamas in any fashion.
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People in general, aren't very sophisticated. And I would expect that a so-called "free election" in a place like Gaza isn't like a free election in Canada. It's probably more like when blacks tried to register to vote in the Southern US during the 60's. If your next door neighbor was all in for Hamas and suspected that you weren't, maybe he makes a phone call and then you have to go through some things.

People in that part of the world do not have the ideals of democracy and representative government bred into them from birth.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Stop pretending that either side has any virtue here. Neither of them are on the side of the angels. Whatever ethical credibility Israel had was spent a long time ago thanks to scumbags like Netanyahu. Obviously, a response to this attack is warranted and I really don't care how heavy handed Israel decides to get. I'm all for them bombing Iran as well as pulverizing Hamas. But let's stop pretending that Israel's skirts are clean here. They aren't hated by their neighbors for no good reason. You could make that argument 50 years ago maybe, but not today and certainly not after a decade of Netanyahu's quasi-fascism.
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you're historically fucking tone deaf here.

Israelis just want to live and exist in peace in their indigenous land.

our neighbours wanted to exterminate us. some of them still do.

Hamas is an entity created with the explicit aim of destroying Israel.

this is the essence of the conflict, and remains so.

'from the river to the sea' is code for 'kill all Jews in Israel'. we've now had a chance to see how that plays out in practice when given an opportunity, and here you are fucking equivocating.
 
The soils of Israel have been stained with the blood of genocide for thousands of years.

Beyond contacting my MP who is only there for a steak dinner I’m powerless and have no skin in the game.

War in Europe is how many family members I never met died. I’ve hated pootin since he first emerged.
So I write more on Ukraine stuff.
 
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