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OT: World Politics

as everyone freaks about WWIII my sense this entire time has been that i'm actually pleasantly surprise by the overall pro-israeli sentiment and the surprising lack of support for hamas overall. this buttresses that nicely:







 
Montana said:


Israeli journalist who has followed, spoken to, and written extensively about Hamas….good listen.

Towards the end he talks about his shock at the level of depravity Hamas showed and discussing it with a member of Fatah...who said the big difference now is it’s a generation of brainwashed people who Hamas have convinced them that it’ll bring them redemption….and that like Goebbels they’ve convinced them that Israeli’s aren’t human, making the massacre we saw, possible.
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I think the population of Gaza is something like 50% under age 18? And we're approaching an entire generation now (17 years worth) of kids who have grown up only ever knowing Hamas rule, and being fed Hamas propaganda in schools. This may be the natural byproduct of that...
 
zeke said:
as everyone freaks about WWIII my sense this entire time has been that i'm actually pleasantly surprise by the overall pro-israeli sentiment and the surprising lack of support for hamas overall.
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Saudi Crown Prince MBS denounced the Hamas attacks for the first time last night/today I believe….shit on everyone including the west, but he did call Hamas actions “heinous” apparently.

Also picked up the phone to speak with Iran about resolving the conflict.
 
zeke said:
as everyone freaks about WWIII my sense this entire time has been that i'm actually pleasantly surprise by the overall pro-israeli sentiment and the surprising lack of support for hamas overall. this buttresses that nicely:







Click to expand...

I appreciate your perspective here. Obviously I am not impartial on this issue and funnily enough my complaint would still be the extent to which Hamas generally gets a pass in the mainstream media (which seems unable to connect the welfare of Palestinians in Gaza directly to actions carried out by their de facto government of Hamas, in addition to treating the reportings of Hamas-controlled ministries as gospel and inherently more accurate than anything sourced from a Jew...). So I guess this is in fact some positive progress.
 
Montana said:
Saudi Crown Prince MBS denounced the Hamas attacks for the first time last night/today I believe….shit on everyone including the west, but he did call Hamas actions “heinous” apparently.

Also picked up the phone to speak with Iran about resolving the conflict.
Click to expand...
I wonder if this is part of a concerted effort to prevent the war from expanding. Either way, glad to hear it, even if MBS himself is a bloodthirsty lunatic.
 
Wayward DP said:
I think the population of Gaza is something like 50% under age 18? And we're approaching an entire generation now (17 years worth) of kids who have grown up only ever knowing Hamas rule, and being fed Hamas propaganda in schools. This may be the natural byproduct of that...
Click to expand...

To the point I wonder if they created something worse than they meant to…..that peace negotiator who spoke with Hamas, had the line about “not everything that occurred was part of the plan”.

wonder if some of the particularly nasty overkill was a result of what you mention….you drill into them since birth that Israeli’s aren’t even human, what’s to stop them from doing anything they want.
 
Even if Hamas is totally destroyed we (the royal we) will be dealing with, I think, a more radicalized Average Palestinian.

They will be giga-pissed, regardless if they supported Hamas or not. In fact, I suspect Hamas will likely be irrelevant at that point. This will be a challenge for everyone… Saudi, Iran, the West, UN, Egypt, etc. (No point in listing the obvious…)

Not sure how this is gonna play out.
 
Montana said:
A Build Back Better Coalition?….
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Something like that. But… this is ugly.

They need to be able to self-govern, realize their economic, social and cultural potential (without being hamstrung by external forces) and guarantee peaceful coexistence with their neighbours. For the next magic trick, we’ll turn the moon into cheese. Right? This is feels naive and too big.

So maybe start with the fundamentals. Governance over things like water and electricity. They can never be allowed to be cut off like that again. And yeah, some kind of Marshall Plan, led by the Arab League.

But if Hamas is gone, and I think it will be, the status quo is gone. A new political reality on the ground. And then what?
 
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