• Moderators, please send me a PM if you are unable to access mod permissions. Thanks, Habsy.

OT: World Politics

LeafOfFaith said:
Israel accepted the two-state solution when they divvied up the British Mandate - guess who didn't and thought they should get the whole thing and started a war. You get only one guess.

Truman was a funny guy. The Jews wanted to drive all Arabs into the sea, huh? We've seen how that's been borne out over the years. Such violent aggressors against the poor, conciliatory Arab countries who have only ever wanted peace and to live in harmony with Jews.

Hilariousness, WeHave be thy name. All of your Leafs takes have turned out to be far more reasonable in comparison to your NOT antisemitic Israel takes. Who'd have thunk it?
Click to expand...
Blame Truman, not me. I posted it without comment. But since you asked...

Are the thousands of people showing up for pro-Palestinian protests in every major city in the western world all misguided? The simple fact of the matter is that what Hamas did, while despicable and heinous, doesn't give Israel a license to run an apartheid state the way they've been allowed to for decades. Israel also needs to be part of the solution and Netanyahu's desire for a one state solution is no solution at all. Both sides need to realize and accept that neither of them is going to wipe out the other and that neither of them is going to get 100% of what they want. For Bibi to push for any solution that doesn't include a two state scenario makes him no better than Hamas because he is essentially committing Israel to perpetrating genocide just like Hamas is committed to doing so. And that makes Israel as responsible for the mess as the Palestinians.

If Israel wants to wipe out the Palestinians fine by me, but no western democracy should applaud it or abet it in any way. If Israel wants to do that they can do it by themselves and deal with the worldwide condemnation. And no western democracy should be doing anything to help the Palestinians either so long as Hamas is calling the shots there. Let them wipe each other out but make it clear to both sides that the west is washing their hands of both of them. I'm tired of being dragged into these proxy conflicts. We already have the only proxy war we need right now in the Ukraine. Israelis and Palestinians fighting over a few square miles of sand and rubble isn't worth our time.
 
Both sides need to realize and accept that neither of them is going to wipe out the other and that neither of them is going to get 100% of what they want
Click to expand...

I don't think this is a given at all. particularly from the Israeli side, who enjoy far broader support from the rich countries and their mediasphere. If they want to wipe out Palestine I believe they could actually get away with it at this particular time.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Blame Truman, not me. I posted it without comment. But since you asked...

Are the thousands of people showing up for pro-Palestinian protests in every major city in the western world all misguided? The simple fact of the matter is that what Hamas did, while despicable and heinous, doesn't give Israel a license to run an apartheid state the way they've been allowed to for decades. Israel also needs to be part of the solution and Netanyahu's desire for a one state solution is no solution at all. Both sides need to realize and accept that neither of them is going to wipe out the other and that neither of them is going to get 100% of what they want. For Bibi to push for any solution that doesn't include a two state scenario makes him no better than Hamas because he is essentially committing Israel to perpetrating genocide just like Hamas is committed to doing so. And that makes Israel as responsible for the mess as the Palestinians.

If Israel wants to wipe out the Palestinians fine by me, but no western democracy should applaud it or abet it in any way. If Israel wants to do that they can do it by themselves and deal with the worldwide condemnation. And no western democracy should be doing anything to help the Palestinians either so long as Hamas is calling the shots there. Let them wipe each other out but make it clear to both sides that the west is washing their hands of both of them. I'm tired of being dragged into these proxy conflicts. We already have the only proxy war we need right now in the Ukraine. Israelis and Palestinians fighting over a few square miles of sand and rubble isn't worth our time.
Click to expand...
This is an incredibly ignorant post, top to bottom. I'm trying to meet some deadlines, but I'll be back to reply to this in substance.

For now, I'll say that yeah, you and all those dummies at the rallies are incredibly misguided, ignorant, and maybe NOT NOT antisemitic.
 
Volcanologist said:
I don't think this is a given at all. particularly from the Israeli side, who enjoy far broader support from the rich countries and their mediasphere. If they want to wipe out Palestine I believe they could actually get away with it at this particular time.
Click to expand...
Well then if that's the case they should get the fuck on with it and live with the consequences. Just don't expect the usual suspects in the West to applaud them while they do it nor should they expect the West to bail them out if they get their tits caught in the wringer at some point. We in the West should only be involved as facilitators of a peaceful, two state resolution to the problem. Other than that they're on their own.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Blame Truman, not me. I posted it without comment. But since you asked...

Are the thousands of people showing up for pro-Palestinian protests in every major city in the western world all misguided? The simple fact of the matter is that what Hamas did, while despicable and heinous, doesn't give Israel a license to run an apartheid state the way they've been allowed to for decades. Israel also needs to be part of the solution and Netanyahu's desire for a one state solution is no solution at all. Both sides need to realize and accept that neither of them is going to wipe out the other and that neither of them is going to get 100% of what they want. For Bibi to push for any solution that doesn't include a two state scenario makes him no better than Hamas because he is essentially committing Israel to perpetrating genocide just like Hamas is committed to doing so. And that makes Israel as responsible for the mess as the Palestinians.

If Israel wants to wipe out the Palestinians fine by me, but no western democracy should applaud it or abet it in any way. If Israel wants to do that they can do it by themselves and deal with the worldwide condemnation. And no western democracy should be doing anything to help the Palestinians either so long as Hamas is calling the shots there. Let them wipe each other out but make it clear to both sides that the west is washing their hands of both of them. I'm tired of being dragged into these proxy conflicts. We already have the only proxy war we need right now in the Ukraine. Israelis and Palestinians fighting over a few square miles of sand and rubble isn't worth our time.
Click to expand...
if Israel wanted to commit a genocide or otherwise wipe out the Palestinians it would have happened three hundred times over by now. it's not like they lack the capacity.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
This is an incredibly ignorant post, top to bottom. I'm trying to meet some deadlines, but I'll be back to reply to this in substance.

For now, I'll say that yeah, you and all those dummies at the rallies are incredibly misguided, ignorant, and maybe NOT NOT antisemitic.
Click to expand...
I agree that a lot of them are just anti-Israel (I have a Palestinian neighbor in my building who told me last week that "we" will win. I was tempted to ask him "Win what, exactly? You've been losing longer than the Leafs Cup drought." but decided it was not a conversation worth having) But all of them? Are you sure that no one at any of those rallies has a legitimate argument to make about how Israel runs its affairs?

If you see the Middle East situation as a black and white, binary thing where Israel is always right and virtuous and the Palestinians are always wrong and evil then you too are part of the problem. Neither side is with the angels, they are both bad. Sure, the Palestinian side is more bad but that shouldn't mean that Israel gets off the hook. Netanyahu is a crypto-fascist and he is a YUGE part of the problem. But we must remember that he didn't seize power, he was elected, which means that a shit ton of the Israeli population, the part that voted for him, are also complicit. If Israel wants to be on the right side of history it needs to stop electing fascists like Bibi because what we're seeing now is what they do. Rabin or Peres could be trusted to run the country ethically but Peres was ousted and Rabin was assassinated. Now they have this fucking guy. And until they get rid of his corrupt ass I'm not cutting Israel any slack.
 
Volcanologist said:
I don't think this is a given at all. particularly from the Israeli side, who enjoy far broader support from the rich countries and their mediasphere. If they want to wipe out Palestine I believe they could actually get away with it at this particular time.
Click to expand...
this comment is very out of touch with the reality of the majority of Jews and Israelis.

but I guess it is now okay to say that Hamas does not represent Palestinians, but Bibi does represent Israelis?
 
Wayward DP said:
this comment is very out of touch with the reality of the majority of Jews and Israelis.

but I guess it is now okay to say that Hamas does not represent Palestinians, but Bibi does represent Israelis?
Click to expand...
Bibi got elected by a majority of Israeli voters. Hamas doesn't do elections. They run things whether the people like it or not.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
I agree that a lot of them are just anti-Israel (I have a Palestinian neighbor in my building who told me last week that "we" will win. I was tempted to ask him "Win what, exactly? You've been losing longer than the Leafs Cup drought." but decided it was not a conversation worth having) But all of them? Are you sure that no one at any of those rallies has a legitimate argument to make about how Israel runs its affairs?

If you see the Middle East situation as a black and white, binary thing where Israel is always right and virtuous and the Palestinians are always wrong and evil then you too are part of the problem. Neither side is with the angels, they are both bad. Sure, the Palestinian side is more bad but that shouldn't mean that Israel gets off the hook. Netanyahu is a crypto-fascist and he is a YUGE part of the problem. But we must remember that he didn't seize power, he was elected, which means that a shit ton of the Israeli population, the part that voted for him, are also complicit. If Israel wants to be on the right side of history it needs to stop electing fascists like Bibi because what we're seeing now is what they do. Rabin or Peres could be trusted to run the country ethically but Peres was ousted and Rabin was assassinated. Now they have this fucking guy. And until they get rid of his corrupt ass I'm not cutting Israel any slack.
Click to expand...
Bibi is loathed in Israeli society. He'll never win another election again. Just like Hamas =/= Palestinians, Bibi =/= Jews. A point that apparently needs repeating.
 
WeHaveMoreCupsThanYou said:
Bibi got elected by a majority of Israeli voters. Hamas doesn't do elections. They run things whether the people like it or not.
Click to expand...
so by wehave logic:
- Trump represents all Americans;
- Harper represents all Canadians;
- Erdogan represents all Turks;
- Putin represents all Russians!

this is a fun game
 
I will help yas out. If my math (and wikipedia) is correct, Bibi received 23.41% of votes cast in the 2022 election. That works out to the support of 16.5% of eligible voters. Or a little over a million votes in a country with nearly 7 million eligible voters.

But please, continue telling me how Bibi is the anointed representative of the Jewish people by virtue of his overwhelming and stellar 2022 election results.
 
Volcanologist said:
is he the leader? yes or no
Click to expand...
what are you even arguing?

is your position that a sovereign state's citizenry ought to bear all the sins of their leaders? cause that's all I can extrapolate, and if that's your case, I vehemently disagree with you, for what I presume are obvious reasons that I am happy to articulate if needed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top