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The 2019-2020 MotherFucking Season Thread

zeke said:
Top-5 TOIqoc Dmen over the last 5yrs, with their RelT cf & xgf:

1. Vlasic -1.2, -1.0
2. Chara -1.0, +0.2
3. Weber +0.6, +2.6
4. Rielly -0.2, -1.5
5. McAvoy +2.5, +3.5

Most common defense partners over those 5yrs of super-elite qoc usage:

1.Hainsey 2089:40
2.Zaitsev 876:95
3.Hunwick 812:47
4.Ceci 462:35
5.Marincin 423:50
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He is so under appreciated in this city. Elite competition with a collection of #6 defenders as his running mate, and some mouth breathers still give Hainsey credit for Rielly's success..
 
Artnes said:
Johnsson for Larsson is one that was tossed out
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That's a hard no from me.

I mean, we're fixing our blueline by bringing in defenders who have struggled for the last 2 seasons on worse defensive teams than we are? Trading a top 6 winger for a guy who has played his way into a #4-5 type role?

Hard pass.

He's their Cody Ceci. Who I have it on good authority we would need to throw an asset in with just to give away because he has an expiring 4.5 million dollar contract....but their Cody Ceci, signed for another year worth 4.2m is worth a young, cost controlled top 6 winger?
 
Artnes said:
Johnsson for Larsson is one that was tossed out
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Mikheyev's injury is such a bummer. With him here, AJ is super-duper expendable, but with him out, then trading a guy like AJ means a top-9 spot is going to have to be filled by a guy you'd rather have on the 4th line - like spezza, tima, brooks, moore. That's still impressive depth a nice list of names to choose from to fill the last spot on the 3rd line, but not quite as no-brainer as it was.

sure hope Mikheyev gets back for the playoffs.

but even without him, AJ is still pretty expendable.

is Larsson the guy to use him on? I dunno. Is Smith a good enough goalie to sweeten the deal as a throw in?
 
let's see what corsica says....

this year: 27gms, B- qoc, 0.39ap/60, 45.5cf% (-3.1relT), 48.7xgf% (-2.0relT) - YIKES
Prev 2yrs: 145gms, B+ qoc, 0.48ap/60, 49.9cf% (+1.7relT), 49.5xgf% (+0.9relT) - solid

he's been a disaster this year, but the previous 2yrs he's been a legit solid defensive dman against legit solid upper 2nd line competition.

pro scouts would have to earn their paycheques on this one.
 
I'm not overly interested in maybe, marginal upgrades on the right side. We have Barrie-Holl-Ceci-Lilly there now, and Lilly is a maybe not so marginal upgrade already. Let's worry about next season this summer. Larsson isn't an upgrade here, and selling low on Johnsson to get something that isn't an upgrade just because he's signed next season, is probably a fucking mistake.
 
Hard pass on trading Johnsson (or Kapanen/Kerfoot) in a deal for Larsson.

We wouldn't exactly be acquiring him when he's at the top of his game, he's not cheap ($4.16M) and he's a UFA after next season, so you'd exchanging three-and-a-half years of Johnsson for one-and-a-half years of Larsson.

If they wanted to take Ceci and some extra, lesser depth pieces/prospects, then maybe.
 
I think Timashov would surprise us if he were promoted.

On trades, I say go big or go home. We don’t need a Larsson if it’s costing us Johnsson. For some lesser guy who we don’t have signed for three more years, sure, if it makes sense. But don’t use any of our good young assets on anyone who isn’t really good himself. Not some reclamation project.
 
Yeah I agree. I don;t really see the point in moving Johnsson/Kappy for a body that can fill the role short term. All Larsson offers is a body that eats up cap space next year and is at best maybe an improvement.

I know guys like Engvall, and Mikheyev have made them expendable, but I don't necessarily think that means its wise to give up $3 million 20 goal scorers for the sake of it. That forward depth has been very valuable this year. unless you can get a Pesce or something, a young guy, who can fill the role long term, whats the point?

Even then I don't think D is our biggest hole.
 
Realistically, if you are trading one of the forwards the best value is probably picks/prospects and cap space rather than a hockey deal. That gives you cheaper depth and the cap space to make a more impactful move.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
I think Timashov would surprise us if he were promoted.

On trades, I say go big or go home. We don’t need a Larsson if it’s costing us Johnsson. For some lesser guy who we don’t have signed for three more years, sure, if it makes sense. But don’t use any of our good young assets on anyone who isn’t really good himself. Not some reclamation project.
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Yep.

Unless the theoretical defenseman we're acquiring really moves the needle and is a significant upgrade, the only thing I'd really like to see happen with our current group of defenseman is to get our injured players back, get Ceci/Marincin out of the top-6 and get Sandin/Lilly in there.
 
leafman101 said:
Even then I don't think D is our biggest hole.
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And that, is the motherfucking salient point.

salient-point.jpg


Our blueline doesn't need an upgrade in the middle of it (if Larsson is even good enough to upgrade the middle of it). We need a stud or nothing. There isn't a damn thing wrong with Muzzin-Barrie-Holl-Dermott 3 through 6. There isn't a damn thing wrong with Muzzin-Barrie-Holl-Dermott-Sandin/Lilly 2 through 7. Also nothing wrong with a healthy Morgan Rielly as your #1. But if we're adding to that group, it needs to be a #1-2 quality defender, full stop.

Where we really need an upgrade is that we need a legit 1B goalie or better. Need to fire Johnsson out the door to get our hands on that? That's a far more challenging decision to make.
 
MindzEye said:
And that, is the motherfucking salient point.

salient-point.jpg


Our blueline doesn't need an upgrade in the middle of it (if Larsson is even good enough to upgrade the middle of it). We need a stud or nothing. There isn't a damn thing wrong with Muzzin-Barrie-Holl-Dermott 3 through 6. There isn't a damn thing wrong with Muzzin-Barrie-Holl-Dermott-Sandin/Lilly 2 through 7. Also nothing wrong with a healthy Morgan Rielly as your #1. But if we're adding to that group, it needs to be a #1-2 quality defender, full stop.

Where we really need an upgrade is that we need a legit 1B goalie or better. Need to fire Johnsson out the door to get our hands on that? That's a far more challenging decision to make.
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IF the Hawks decide to deal Lehner (regardless of them looking over the fence right now at the playoffs I still think they should) are you willing to pay the price for 4-5 months of him?

Realistically unless Dubas can move Freddy this summer they wont be in the running to re-sign him.
 
Artnes said:
IF the Hawks decide to deal Lehner (regardless of them looking over the fence right now at the playoffs I still think they should) are you willing to pay the price for 4-5 months of him?

Realistically unless Dubas can move Freddy this summer they wont be in the running to re-sign him.
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for Johnsson, with the Soup Commie and Engvall in house as replacements? Yeah, I'd have to do that. I think we would have the cap space to retain Lehner in the summer, even without moving Fred. We'd be running ~12 million worth of goalies out there and it wouldn't be ideal. We would have to be creative in solving the right side of the blueline, but I'd much rather fix our goaltending than anything else.

Mikky-Matthews-Marner
Engvall-Tavares-Nylander
Hyman-Kerfoot-Kapanen
Brooks-Spezza-Moore
Goat/Tima

Rielly-Holl
Sandin-Dermott
Marincin-Lilly

Lehner
Fred

and there would be about 5 million (assuming 7ish to Lehner) to upgrade the blueline, so possibly a Muzzin extension.

I'd obviously prefer to move Fred (whose reputation and trade value probably exceeds his production) and have a bucket of money to throw at solidying that blueline (AP would still be in the conversation) and adding a 1B/Backup, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if we had a 12m dollar platoon. We can afford for a year with the pile of cheap RFA deals we have at the moment.
 
This latest span of bad goaltending makes me personally think that, we should do something on that front.

I mean, Dubas, really is impressive in some ways.

But having NO viable back up for 50 games is for me, totally inexcusable.

And now it seems we might be seeing the demise of our starter.

Who gives a shit about who our number 5 dman is, if this is the case? I mean.. Who really cares.
 
$7M seems a little steep for Lehner. As good as he's been the last couple of years, it's been as a platoon starter.

I also wonder if the level of interest in him will have fundamentally changed since last summer, or if old-school front-offices will still be terrified of his history of mental illness and substance abuse. It certainly doesn't seem like the Hawks are in a hurry to pay him.

You can also toss in the fact that there's currently a lot of decent goalies slated to become UFA's this summer (Holtby, Markstrom, Greiss, Halak, Khudobin), as well as some veteran reclamation projects (Howard, Talbot, Smith) competing with Lehner for contracts & jobs.
 
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