The 2019-2020 MotherFucking Season Thread

[LeafOfFaith]

Has he ever said they were a perfect team?

Not at all. He said something like he thinks Clifford can play AND is tough, and that the toughness element is something people have had a gripe about for a while and that adding him should address that somewhat.

Now, maybe that doesn't constitute an admission that Dubas himself thought we lacked toughness, but I don't think we were really dying to add another fourth liner if not for his toughness.

 

[Preston]

Not at all. He said something like he thinks Clifford can play AND is tough, and that the toughness element is something people have had a gripe about for a while and that adding him should address that somewhat.

In other words, "we got a good player that is strong analytically, which is what I care about, but he also punches people's faces, which is what fans care about, so maybe people will shut the fuck up about that now."

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Yeah, pretty much, but he's not exactly in the business of doing what the fans want him to do.

Clearly he added Clifford because he wants that physical element and thought we lacked it. Otherwise there's no need to add another fourth liner.

 

[MindzEye]

Yeah, he flat out stated that he doesn't care about face punching and doesn't like asking someone to go out and do that as a role...

The question is at about 4:40

 

[Preston]

Yeah, pretty much, but he's not exactly in the business of doing what the fans want him to do.

Clearly he added Clifford because he wants that physical element and thought we lacked it. Otherwise there's no need to add another fourth liner.

No. He added him because he's a good player. He also happens to punch faces which as he says, may satisfy some of the morons. But that's not why they got him.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Maybe, but I personally think the guy's face-punching skills played a large role in it, whether Dubas says so or not.

 

[MindzEye]

whether Dubas says so or not.

Even if Dubas states the exact opposite?

Here's an alternate take that you won't like. To quote from your previous post

Otherwise there's no need to add another fourth liner.

Ackshually...the nerd stats dislike Goat. The nerd stats love Clifford. Clifford-Spezza as a 4th line combo is a nerd stat dream pairing.

Clifford is here because he's good at hockey, not because he can punch faces. There were definitely reasons to add a 4th liner as good as Clifford. He's an improvement on anyone we were playing there.

 

[leafman101]

Dubas never said he didn't like/want toughness, just he has no interest in players who can't play hockey and tough players that can play hockey are usually overrated and overvalued.

 

[leafman101]

Also he specifically said yesterday that "face punching" is not how the team defines toughness, and he doesn't want to ask players to do that.

And I'm not sure how anyone can look at this season and say "thething this team has really missed this year is a fighter." Not having a fighter literally hasn't made any difference in any game.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Nobody said that.

We've seen almost all of our guys get run (many with head shots) and no response at all this year. To the point where people were so impressed that Ceci lightly shoved a guy a little for trying to take out Sandin last week. We definitely don't boast a roster of players who will go after anyone for taking a cheap shot. This is a guy who would presumably hold the other team accountable, and a guy who will play with some physicality. So if anyone thinks that wasn't a big part of bringing him in, and that it's all about how awesome of a fourth liner he is, well, not sure what to tell you.

 

[Volcanologist]

we'll see what happens... but Clifford even at the current 1.6 is too expensive for 11 minutes a night here. it fits right now because the kings are retaining, but two guys like Spezza on minimum deals probably makes more sense for us next season.

I know, Ontario boy and all that.. but this is probably just a rental for the playoff drive and hopefully postseason.

 

[MindzEye]

So if anyone thinks that wasn't a big part of bringing him in, and that it's all about how awesome of a fourth liner he is, well, not sure what to tell you.

You're literally arguing with the guy who brought him here, about why he was brought here.

 

[Preston]

You're literally arguing with the guy who brought him here, about why he was brought here.

And not just that, but he's proving Kyle's point about it appeasing the old school types. In fewer words, Dubas simply said that everyone will be happy with this. The dumbasses, the analytical types. Everyone.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

You're literally arguing with the guy who brought him here, about why he was brought here.

I'm not exactly arguing with him. He acknowledged he plays a tough game. It's not like it isn't known to him or that he doesn't recognize it then. All I'm saying is that I find it unlikely that that physical element being part of the package didn't factor in a big way into his interest in the guy. I really don't think he's dying for fourth line "skill" to give up a relatively high pick for that.

 

[LeafOfFaith]

And not just that, but he's proving Kyle's point about it appeasing the old school types. In fewer words, Dubas simply said that everyone will be happy with this. The dumbasses, the analytical types. Everyone.

It's cute that you live in some version of the world where physicality has no impact, especially in the playoffs. The last thing I want are thugs running around and handling the puck like a grenade. But to have some guys who can play and are willing to take heads off just for fun is important to have, even if just as a deterrent. You're fooling yourself if you think Dubas doesn't know that too, especially after the last few postseasons, and that that wasn't a need he wanted to address. As he said, not at the expense of getting a Kordic or Parros to play for us, but someone who can throw his weight around a bit and not cost us.

 

[aniablue]

Eye test?

Jack Campbell, is not.

No reflexes in tight. Reminds me a lot of Raycroft. Splendid technicque. Great stickwork.

Seems like a nice guy but... Dude doesn't have the je ne sais quoi.

IF you want a mug... Get Robin Lehner, guy is a beast. But he ain't going for Trevor Moore and some 3's.

Dig deep Dubas, if you want a mug. Me: I couldn't care less any more. But if you want a mug this year, get Lehner.

Dubas has built the brand of brands.

Brilliant nerdy.

MIght never win a Cup. But will always be pretty.

Dubas, the no win a Mug guy.....

I always knew Shanahan was a D.......

 

[aniablue]

Lol as usual, I am going to be waaay forward on this one.

But lack of developing goalies is going to sink golden boy. Or ..... not.

Take heed Kyle, our goalies suck.

 

[MindzEye]

It's cute that you live in some version of the world where physicality has no impact, especially in the playoffs.

The physicality of 4th liners doesn't decide playoffs series. It doesn't matter.

The first thing the reigning champs did last off season was punt their two most physical depth players (Edmunson and Maroon). Pittsburgh won twice with Malkin being their PIM leader and Hornqvist their most physical forward.

One of the biggest problems with the broader discussion about this is how revisionist it is. Most of the players being considered physical 2 way gud pro, willing to bleed to win types had the reputation as soft bitches, playoff chokes, low character, etc a couple of months before they broke through and won a cup. The underlying truth is that the hockey media massages the reputations of these players after the fact, after they win, to fit their pre determined narratives. Case in point....Ovy still doesn't fucking back check. The media had spent the 12 months previous to the Washington and St Louis' cup wins trading half the team away because it couldn't possibly win the way it was constructed.

Can big and strong players be difficult to play against? Yeah sure. But they're not worth a whole lot if they're only playing 8 minutes a night.

 

[JackBurton]

Yup. Yzerman was actually destroyed by the media until he won his 1st cup. Then he became the greatest leader ever. (There's also this odd myth that they won because Yzerman became a"Two-Way" player. HAHAHA. The Wings were dogshit in the 80's when Yzerman put up his biggest seasons. They won because they easily had the most talent.
It's just weird this idea you win with these gritty players. It's so fucking stupid.

 

[leafman101]