The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

[LeafOfFaith]

If we end up with ROR Acciari and Kampf again the tavares to the wing is a nice option to have.

I don’t know why, but I think I’d be good with none of those guys coming back. They all felt so useless against Florida that I’ve soured on them. Especially ROR. That was a major letdown for me.

 

[zeke]

dubas’s biggest failing is not drafting a single forward who can slot into their top 6.

the leafs path to success depended on it, imo.

how good would the leafs look with mangia and dube on the wings, or with some draft / prospect capital from dealing those guys once they were priced out?

Hyman
Mikheyev
Bunting
Moore
Barabanov
Marchment
Knies
Robertson

And Jarnkrok did it this year for cheap too. And Engvall did it immediqtely for NYI.

We had the talent at the right price. The plan could have worked.

 

[Wayward DP]

IMO they need a couple centers, and to give the kids a legit shot.

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-XXX-Willy
Robertson-XXX-XXX
Jarnkrok-Holmberg-Lafferty/blahblah blah

And they have a ton of cap space to make impact additions there too.

If they could add a top 4 D to push McCabe down the lineup that would be ideal too.

Rielly-Lilly
Brodie-XXX
McCabe-Timmins
Gio

lol, you have Lilly on our first pair. cute.

 

[Wayward DP]

It's a lot easier to not make mistakes when you don't really do anything risky. Kyle's entire plan revolved around keeping the core 4 together. He was unable to sign any egregious contracts because he literally couldn't. They'd be over the cap. Great job and all but I think it's time they bring in a GM who has the balls to make a big, more aggressive move to help give them that extra jolt. This is where Kyle failed and I think Treliving can excel. Kyle was a good GM, not great. He set the table well but botched a lot of his decisions that attempted to fill in the blanks on the roster. Time to try a new look.

you make it sound like Kyle was a passive party in establishing our team's cap structure, rather than its architect

 

[CH1]

Honestly its probably just semantic bullshit….they’re obviously in touch with all teams, and if it’s not Dubas, it’s Gilman or Pridham touching base with the other teams lay of the land.

Burke used to have Nonis do lots of that as well.….I’d assume that’s par for the course.

I don’t think it means much.

Some GMs simply enjoy talking shop with their counterparts. Tre is known for his ability to “work the phones”

So was Bergevin.

And I’m sure some GMs give off that “only call me when you have something” vibe

 

[Montana]

The annoying this is we ended up paying pretty much as much for goalies each year as they did.

we got pretty solid returns on Campbell (.921, .914) and Samsonov (.919)….hope we continue that trend.

hell, I could even go for another run of Freddie like stability of .918, .918, .917, .909 we got for those first four years.


we’ve been kinda lucky in net, for the most part.

 

[Wayward DP]

Yeah sure i just wouldnt limit our options by saying we need 2 good Cs. We truly don't.

But sure if we can, thats great.

eh Tavares was a liability at C in both playoff rounds.

 

[Wayward DP]

I wouldn't do this. It's going to limit your enjoyment of the Leafs if they do succeed. For some, being right is more important than their team succeeding. Don't do that.

hey I put my TDL skepticism aside for the playoffs. but I was also right! (as were you!) there is a balance that can be struck here

 

[Wayward DP]

dubas’s biggest failing is not drafting a single forward who can slot into their top 6.

the leafs path to success depended on it, imo.

how good would the leafs look with mangia and dube on the wings, or with some draft / prospect capital from dealing those guys once they were priced out?

Knies and Robbie (if he doesn't break) could rewrite the script on this as soon as this year. But fair point overall. I think he got sewered a bit by the shite Hunter drafts, but also sewered himself by trading so many picks.

 

[Preston]

you make it sound like Kyle was a passive party in establishing our team's cap structure, rather than its architect

No no no I have complimented Kyle tremendously for what he was able to build and preserve. My only point here is that Treliving literally cannot sign 90% of the contracts he signed with Calgary. Having this cap structure self regulates anytime you may be tempted to go nuts, which is one of its perks. I think the fear mongering that Treliving is going to sign 3 ZARs to a 6 year contracts at 5m per year is baseless. Because 1. Treliving's record of identifying talent is excellent and 2. Even if he is tempted he quite literally can't. The only fear would be that he blows up the roster by trading a Marner but that appears to not be happening.

I think a certain someone in this thread has gotten a bit carried away with the Dubas glorification an the Treliving fear mongering. The truth can be somewhere in the middle. We need to be less black or white here. Both GMs did have done a lot of very good and very bad things.

 

[Wayward DP]

How was any of that “fine” though?

That is pure dog in burning house meme.

Keefe is still better than a lot of other coaches out there.

And looks to be a pretty elite RS coach.

His failings are in the playoffs. Which also happen to be the team's failings. Which is why I support moving on from him. But let's not pretend like he's some useless sack of shit. We could do a lot worse.

 

[Wayward DP]

Does he? Because I think an incapacitated puppy could’ve been behind the bench and the team would’ve achieved the same.

I mean just look at the turnaround after they fire Babs.

You're a wins guy - Keefe won a shit ton of games. A very high percentage. (regular season)

 

[LeafOfFaith]

Keefe is still better than a lot of other coaches out there.

And looks to be a pretty elite RS coach.

His failings are in the playoffs. Which also happen to be the team's failings. Which is why I support moving on from him. But let's not pretend like he's some useless sack of shit. We could do a lot worse.

I think the team won in spite of him.

And he never once, ever, ever played his best lineup.

 

[Wayward DP]

No no no I have complimented Kyle tremendously for what he was able to build and preserve. My only point here is that Treliving literally cannot sign 90% of the contracts he signed with Calgary. Having this cap structure self regulates anytime you may be tempted to go nuts, which is one of its perks. I think the fear mongering that Treliving is going to sign 3 ZARs to a 6 year contracts at 5m per year is baseless. Because 1. Treliving's record of identifying talent is excellent and 2. Even if he is tempted he quite literally can't. The only fear would be that he blows up the roster but that appears to not be happening.

I think a certain someone in this thread has gotten a bit carried away with the Dubas glorification an the Treliving fear mongering. The truth can be somewhere in the middle. We need to be less black or white here. Both GMs did have done a lot of very good and very bad things.

eh I think you're arguing against a very extreme but unlikely position.

for me, the salient point is that he can fuck us pretty severely with only one or two albatross contracts a la his Calgary shitshow, where he has a handful.

just cause he doesn't have the cap room to fully match his abomination of contracts compiled in Calgary doesn't mean he cannot overpay one or two UFAs on long-term deals and fuck us that way.

and more importantly - Dubas has a very strong record of cap management. Treliving's is much more questionable. I don't think either are contentious points. So it seems reasonable to be apprehensive about the types of contracts Treliving is gonna sign.

 

[zeke]

I don’t know why, but I think I’d be good with none of those guys coming back. They all felt so useless against Florida that I’ve soured on them. Especially ROR. That was a major letdown for me.

ROR 1gls 2pts -2
Kampf 0gls 2pts +2
Tavares 0gls 1pts -2
Acciari 0gls 0pts -3

 

[zeke]

we got pretty solid returns on Campbell (.921, .914) and Samsonov (.919)….hope we continue that trend.

hell, I could even go for another run of Freddie like stability of .918, .918, .917, .909 we got for those first four years.


we’ve been kinda lucky in net, for the most part.

We've been largely mediocre in net at mediocre prices. Nothing lucky or unlucky really.

 

[Preston]

eh I think you're arguing against a very extreme but unlikely position.

for me, the salient point is that he can fuck us pretty severely with only one or two albatross contracts a la his Calgary shitshow, where he has a handful.

just cause he doesn't have the cap room to fully match his abomination of contracts compiled in Calgary doesn't mean he cannot overpay one or two UFAs on long-term deals and fuck us that way.

and more importantly - Dubas has a very strong record of cap management. Treliving's is much more questionable. I don't think either are contentious points. So it seems reasonable to be apprehensive about the types of contracts Treliving is gonna sign.

Again, I haven't argued any of this; just making a bull case because I think the catastrophizing has been a bit insane today and that's coming from a guy that had a deadline meltdown. They are very similar GMs in many ways, value the same type of player, although I think Treliving has more of an analytics approach than recent Kyle. But yes this is their biggest difference in terms of track record. Dubas has proven to be a strong cap guy, Treliving has signed some questionable deals.

But at the same time, the amount of talent that Treliving has drafted, signed and traded for vs Dubas is not even close. I'm not even saying either are better at one thing vs another.. they were in completely different situations. Being a GM in Toronto with this roster and this cap structure forces you to change your outlook.. Treliving doesn't need to do a lot of what he did in Calgary. Whereas Kyle, if he ends up in Pitt, may have to do what Treliving attempted to do in Calgary and find talent to surround his aging stars.

I just think people need to relax. We aren't asking him to go through a full rebuild. He just needs to do better than Dubas did at filling out the roster. This is an insanely good team. They'll be fine, I promise.

 

[Montana]

We've been largely mediocre in net at mediocre prices.

…which allowed us to never attach ourselves to a crippling albatross, while hedging on multiple options, increasing our chances at getting good tending. Which we have.

Nothing lucky or unlucky really.

you’re right, more Dubas skill as a GM than anything.

 

[Montana]

They are very similar GMs in many ways, value the same type of player, although I think Treliving has more of an analytics approach

Super nerd Treliving has some magic nerdies that led him half a dozen or more disaster signings.

He’s more Jim Benning than he is Kyle Dubas.

 

[Preston]

Super nerd Treliving has some magic nerdies that led him half a dozen or more disaster signings.

He’s more Jim Benning than he is Kyle Dubas.

See what I mean @Wayward DP? It's people who are being unreasonable that I'm debating. You can't argue with those who ignore facts but I sure tried.

We need to take a deep breath. It will all be ok. Could it even get any worse? I mean Jesus Christ, folks.