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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

Preston said:
See what I mean @Wayward DP? It's people who are being unreasonable that I'm debating. You can't argue with those who ignore facts but I sure tried.

We need to take a deep breath. It will all be ok. Could it even get any worse? I mean Jesus Christ, folks.
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Your argument is 90% of the bad contracts he signed in Calgary, he can’t do here….except if he does any of them, and it falls on its face as badly as they did, it supremely fuck us.

that’s a pretty legit concern I would say.
 
Wayward DP said:
eh I think you're arguing against a very extreme but unlikely position.

for me, the salient point is that he can fuck us pretty severely with only one or two albatross contracts a la his Calgary shitshow, where he has a handful.

just cause he doesn't have the cap room to fully match his abomination of contracts compiled in Calgary doesn't mean he cannot overpay one or two UFAs on long-term deals and fuck us that way.

and more importantly - Dubas has a very strong record of cap management. Treliving's is much more questionable. I don't think either are contentious points. So it seems reasonable to be apprehensive about the types of contracts Treliving is gonna sign.
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missed this. Well said.
 
Montana said:
Your argument is 90% of the bad contracts he signed in Calgary, he can’t do here….except if he does any of them, and it falls on its face as badly as they did, it supremely fuck us.

that’s a pretty legit concern I would say.
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My argument is that you're not thinking rationally right now because you're emotional. The guy built a fantastic team in Calgary by every metric that you seem to care about. You need to step away and come back because you are better than this.
 
Preston said:
My argument is that you're not thinking rationally right now because you're emotional. The guy built a fantastic team in Calgary by every metric that you seem to care about. You need to step away and come back because you are better than this.
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My argument is, you think I’m being emotional and glorifying Dubas, while fear mongering Treliving.

….by discussing Trelivings actual free agency moves, and Dubas & Keefe actual success together. (4 straight years of top 5 xGF% is pretty incredible).


I apologize if discussing Trelivings free agency failures has been triggering and equated to fear mongering for you.
 
Montana said:
…which allowed us to never attach ourselves to a crippling albatross, while hedging on multiple options, increasing our chances at getting good tending. Which we have.
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eh most "crippling albatross" goalies end up being mediocre overall for similar prices as we've paid.
 
Montana said:
My argument is, you think I’m being emotional and glorifying Dubas, while fear mongering Treliving.

….by discussing Trelivings actual free agency moves, and Dubas & Keefe actual success together. (4 straight years of top 5 xGF% is pretty incredible).


I apologize if discussing Trelivings free agency failures has been triggering and equated to fear mongering for you.
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No. I don't think that. I know that. You're exaggerating both the amount of doom and the amount of Dubas jubilation that is logical; it's completely off the charts over the top. It's unfortunate because there are sliver of truths in there but you are so far gone that it's impossible to take seriously. You need to have a level somewhere in between black and white.
 
Preston said:
You're exaggerating the amount of doom
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…it’s amusing you keep saying this, about just pointing at his actual moves.


if anything I’ve just posted Treliving moves, that otherwise weren’t being brought up during your sales pitch, about how great he is.
 
Preston said:
it's completely off the charts over the top. It's unfortunate because there are sliver of truths in there but you are so far gone that it's impossible to take seriously. You need to have a level somewhere in between black and white.
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what have I lied about?


(That wasn’t clearly a joke.)
 
Montana said:
…it’s amusing you keep saying this, about just pointing at his actual moves.
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Yes you have listed a lot of his bad moves. Others have listed a lot of Kyle's bad moves. I haven't denied that those moves were made. I will caution you to assume that the Leafs are completely fucked though. This is a pretty good team and the new GM has done plenty of good, enough to not be suicidal over. Deep breaths.
 
Montana said:
what have I lied about?


(That wasn’t clearly a joke.)
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I didn't mean you lied. Just meant that you've made a lot of good points about the good stuff Kyle has done and the bad stuff Treliving has done. It's the emotional over the top doomsdaying and Dubas "he can do no wrong" glorifying/ignoring any wrongdoing that I mostly object to.
 
zeke said:
Sv%

This year: TOR #10, CGY #23
Last year: CGY #4, TOR #21

meh.
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…and the first Markstrom year?


looks like we won 2 out of 3 years…..without having $6m x 3 remaining on our books for a 34yo goalie.


that’s a pretty solid win, in my books.
 
Preston said:
It's a lot easier to not make mistakes when you don't really do anything risky. Kyle's entire plan revolved around keeping the core 4 together. He was unable to sign any egregious contracts because he literally couldn't. They'd be over the cap. Great job and all but I think it's time they bring in a GM who has the balls to make a big, more aggressive move to help give them that extra jolt. This is where Kyle failed and I think Treliving can excel. Kyle was a good GM, not great. He set the table well but botched a lot of his decisions that attempted to fill in the blanks on the roster. Time to try a new look.
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So the media was right...they were in cap hell
 
Preston said:
Again, I haven't argued any of this; just making a bull case because I think the catastrophizing has been a bit insane today and that's coming from a guy that had a deadline meltdown. They are very similar GMs in many ways, value the same type of player, although I think Treliving has more of an analytics approach than recent Kyle. But yes this is their biggest difference in terms of track record. Dubas has proven to be a strong cap guy, Treliving has signed some questionable deals.

But at the same time, the amount of talent that Treliving has drafted, signed and traded for vs Dubas is not even close. I'm not even saying either are better at one thing vs another.. they were in completely different situations. Being a GM in Toronto with this roster and this cap structure forces you to change your outlook.. Treliving doesn't need to do a lot of what he did in Calgary. Whereas Kyle, if he ends up in Pitt, may have to do what Treliving attempted to do in Calgary and find talent to surround his aging stars.

I just think people need to relax. We aren't asking him to go through a full rebuild. He just needs to do better than Dubas did at filling out the roster. This is an insanely good team. They'll be fine, I promise.
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fine isn't good enough though. hasn't been for the past seven years.

that's the issue.

I think folks are right to be skeptical until we see any improved results.
 
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