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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

Because Connor’s 12 goals and 27 points in 40 playoff games will help us get over the hump?

Trade Marner and you are 99% trading away the possibility of any cup in the near term. We’ll lose the trade, Tavares will age out and be gone, and then they’re going to dump Willy and Matthews for prospects and that’s the end of that. I’m other words, the remaining two year window gets blown and you tread water till you blow up.

Stay the course and add. That’s what we should’ve done at the deadline. Not only did we not try to add offense like Meier or Karlsson, but we deleted Engvall’s and Sandin’s to add pluggers. It was obvious then that we got fucked.

We had 5 games of no shows from the big guns. But Florida’s big guys didn’t exactly go to town either. Tkachuk 0 goals and 5 assists. Barkov 1 goal and 0 assists. The best of the rest had like 3 points. But they advanced so nobody is talking about them.

We should’ve won game 2 no question. We lost game 3 in OT. We won game 5 in regulation only to lose in OT. This was a fucking close series where the stars mostly neutralized each other.

But this seems to happen every fucking year, which is why I was crying for more offense to be added. A couple of other guys who could score if the big guys ran dry again. ROR is in fact pretty cooked. A good add for 3C but he wasn’t a top 6 add. We made zero top 6 adds this year, except Knies who we drafted. Other teams added scorers, we sat around and didn’t bother to get say JVR or anyone else who could chip in goals. It’s not hard to keep down guys like Kampf and Lafferty, and Keefe insists on giving them a lot of ice, so the result here isn’t surprising.
 
Forwards
$11,640,250 - Matthews
$11,000,000 - Tavares
$10,903,000 - Marner
$6,962,366 - Nylander
$2,100,000 - Jarnkrok
$1,150,000 - Lafferty
$925,000 - Knies
$796,667 - Robertson
$762,500 - McMann

Defensemen
$7,500,000 - Rielly
$5,625,000 - Muzzin
$5,000,000 - Brodie
$2,000,000 - McCabe
$1,400,000 - Liljegren
$1,100,000 - Timmins
$800,000 - Giordano

Goalies
$4,687,500 - Murray
$766,667 - Woll

Salaries = $69,493,950 (Not counting Muzzin)
Cap = $83,500,000 (might be a bit higher, TBD)
Cap Space = $14,006,050

Re-sign
$4,000,000 - O'Reilly - Has to know he's losing it, so maybe he can get more, or maybe he feels like Toronto is good spot for him
$3,000,000 - Samsonov - Would've been in line for a lot more before a shaky playoffs, but he's solid enough to split with Woll
$1,500,000 - Bunting - Also cost himself a bigger payday with his 2nd half/playoff foolishness, but I think he wants to be here
$1,500,000 - Schenn - Can we get him to want to be here, or will another team pay him a Chiarot/Gudbranson payday

Trade
$4,687,500 - Murray - Get rid of him any way you can without retention.. attach a few picks/prospects/rights and bury it

Line-up
Knies - Matthews - __________
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Robertson - O'Reilly - Nylander
Lafferty - __________ - Jarnkrok

Rielly - Schenn
Brodie - McCabe
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Salaries = $74,806,450
Cap = $83,500,000 (might be a bit higher, TBD)
Cap Space = $8,693,550

Targets
Tom Wilson - The last piece we should've made a play for at the deadline... Would look amazing beside Matthews or Marner
Tyler Bertuzzi - Could've been a great option too, what would he be looking for?
Travis Konecny - Philly is rebuilding, could he be a target for some picks/prospects?
Nazem Kadri - Funny enough, at $7mill I like him even though the back half of his deal will be a mess.. maybe @ 25% retain?
Brayden Schenn - Also on the back half, but StL is building their core on Kyrou + Thomas in their early 20's, Brayden is expendable
Brendan Lemieux - Dirty on the edge kind of player we are missing.. smaller side, but would run through a wall
Max Domi - Similar chippy type who can score and play up and down lines, though is a 3rd liner at best these days

With almost $9mill and 2 holes (though Lafferty is a joke and should be moved too, plus still counting McMann's salary), we aren't far off, but we need shameless protection of guys like Marner, Matthews, Nylander who shouldn't be worried about it.

Wilson is the guy.

The others on the list fit the bill.

Likely? No.

Necessary? Yes.

Otherwise it will unfortunately be more of the same result.
 
gilmour93forever said:
Forwards
$11,640,250 - Matthews
$11,000,000 - Tavares
$10,903,000 - Marner
$6,962,366 - Nylander
$2,100,000 - Jarnkrok
$1,150,000 - Lafferty
$925,000 - Knies
$796,667 - Robertson
$762,500 - McMann

Defensemen
$7,500,000 - Rielly
$5,625,000 - Muzzin
$5,000,000 - Brodie
$2,000,000 - McCabe
$1,400,000 - Liljegren
$1,100,000 - Timmins
$800,000 - Giordano

Goalies
$4,687,500 - Murray
$766,667 - Woll

Salaries = $69,493,950 (Not counting Muzzin)
Cap = $83,500,000 (might be a bit higher, TBD)
Cap Space = $14,006,050

Re-sign
$4,000,000 - O'Reilly - Has to know he's losing it, so maybe he can get more, or maybe he feels like Toronto is good spot for him
$3,000,000 - Samsonov - Would've been in line for a lot more before a shaky playoffs, but he's solid enough to split with Woll
$1,500,000 - Bunting - Also cost himself a bigger payday with his 2nd half/playoff foolishness, but I think he wants to be here
$1,500,000 - Schenn - Can we get him to want to be here, or will another team pay him a Chiarot/Gudbranson payday

Trade
$4,687,500 - Murray - Get rid of him any way you can without retention.. attach a few picks/prospects/rights and bury it

Line-up
Knies - Matthews - __________
Bunting - Tavares - Marner
Robertson - O'Reilly - Nylander
Lafferty - __________ - Jarnkrok

Rielly - Schenn
Brodie - McCabe
Giordano - Liljegren
Timmins

Samsonov
Woll

Salaries = $74,806,450
Cap = $83,500,000 (might be a bit higher, TBD)
Cap Space = $8,693,550

Targets
Tom Wilson - The last piece we should've made a play for at the deadline... Would look amazing beside Matthews or Marner
Tyler Bertuzzi - Could've been a great option too, what would he be looking for?
Travis Konecny - Philly is rebuilding, could he be a target for some picks/prospects?
Nazem Kadri - Funny enough, at $7mill I like him even though the back half of his deal will be a mess.. maybe @ 25% retain?
Brayden Schenn - Also on the back half, but StL is building their core on Kyrou + Thomas in their early 20's, Brayden is expendable
Brendan Lemieux - Dirty on the edge kind of player we are missing.. smaller side, but would run through a wall
Max Domi - Similar chippy type who can score and play up and down lines, though is a 3rd liner at best these days

With almost $9mill and 2 holes (though Lafferty is a joke and should be moved too, plus still counting McMann's salary), we aren't far off, but we need shameless protection of guys like Marner, Matthews, Nylander who shouldn't be worried about it.

Wilson is the guy.

The others on the list fit the bill.

Likely? No.

Necessary? Yes.

Otherwise it will unfortunately be more of the same result.
Click to expand...
your UFA valuations are hilarious, and not in a good way.

although you may actually be too high on Schenn (others are all way too low) but it's tough to say how much his sweetheart playoff run will influence his next deal. he's been close to a league minimum guy for years now.

and no thanks to Tom Wilson's decline years, or any part of the newest Naz deal.

of the players you listed I think Bertuzzi is the only one I'd have any interest in.
 
my gut is telling me that the Doobie man is gone. which likely means Keefer goes too.

interested to know if Dubas was doing Shanny's bidding with the gudpro nonsense or if he subscribes to it...
 
Murray is tradeable if we're willing to take someone else's contract mess

But he's going to get LTIR'd
 
Wayward DP said:
your UFA valuations are hilarious, and not in a good way.

although you may actually be too high on Schenn (others are all way too low) but it's tough to say how much his sweetheart playoff run will influence his next deal. he's been close to a league minimum guy for years now.

and no thanks to Tom Wilson's decline years, or any part of the newest Naz deal.

of the players you listed I think Bertuzzi is the only one I'd have any interest in.
Click to expand...
I'm sure all could get more for sure, but the question is from who and do they want to go there.

- O'Reilly is on the decline, but still decent. Maybe he can get $6, but from who?
- Bunting f***ed himself with us, so I could see Dubas (if still here) playing the relationship/friendship cards for a little raise and 2yr prove it deal. But you're right, open market he could probably catch $3-4.
- Samsonov I'm not sure TBH. Goalies get paid handsomely, sure. But he was shaaaaaaaaky in the playoffs. Probably could go up to $5 on the open market, but Dubas loves to grind down RFA's while we have the control.
- Schenn is the wildcard... seeing what some guys got last year he could probably fetch up to $4 on the open market. But if he likes it here and wants the Gio treatment, I could be $1.5.

Regardless, you can't hate the fact that Dubas left this team with a LOT of flexibility heading into the offseason to tinker.
 
Wayward DP said:
my gut is telling me that the Doobie man is gone. which likely means Keefer goes too.

interested to know if Dubas was doing Shanny's bidding with the gudpro nonsense or if he subscribes to it...
Click to expand...
Wouldn't be surprised if Dubas has other offers he's considering, but I'm a fan of what he's been able to do.

He's put the team in a position to win every year.

The players haven't pulled through for him.
 
Dubas and Keefe have done enough wrong that i won't cry if they leave.

But i'd be scared that the Leafs would respond by blaming the good parts of the dubas keefe era instead of the bad parts.

But there's lots of good gm and coach candidates if they want them.
 
gilmour93forever said:
O'Reilly is on the decline, but still decent. Maybe he can get $6, but from who?
Click to expand...

A team willingly gave Kadri 7xforever last summer. Never underestimate the stupidity of NHL GM's with cap space. ROR looked good enough for us to believe the narrative that he's fine and worth the investment.

gilmour93forever said:
Bunting f***ed himself with us, so I could see Dubas (if still here) playing the relationship/friendship cards for a little raise and 2yr prove it deal. But you're right, open market he could probably catch $3-4.
Click to expand...

lol. keep going mate.

Bunting probably comes in at something in the 4-6 years 4.5-5.5 range. Ryan Strome signed 5x5 last summer, 34 yr old Reilly Smith signed 5x3yrs. Mason Marchment signed 4.5x4 after a single 18 goal season. Bunting is coming off of back to back 23 goal seasons without 1st unit PP time. Now, I'm the first to say "beware of paying the worst player on a line/PP unit/etc", but that's not really subscribed to around the league. His ratfuckery is going to be valued in addition to his offence.
gilmour93forever said:
Samsonov I'm not sure TBH. Goalies get paid handsomely, sure. But he was shaaaaaaaaky in the playoffs. Probably could go up to $5 on the open market, but Dubas loves to grind down RFA's while we have the control.
Click to expand...

Sammy's agent isn't going to give away UFA years for cheap but just for safety will probably prefer a multi year deal instead of a QO & show me year. His agent will probably try to value UFA years at 5 million, and the rfa year at 3.5ish. 3/13.5 total.
gilmour93forever said:
Schenn is the wildcard... seeing what some guys got last year he could probably fetch up to $4 on the open market. But if he likes it here and wants the Gio treatment, I could be $1.5.
Click to expand...

lol, why do people keep acting like a guy who has literally been a UFA a bunch of times and keeps getting offered vet min or damn close is going to end up at nearly 2x that at 33-34?

I'm good with bringing Schenn back, but we're talking about .9-1.0 here (basically the .850 he made this year + cap inflation).
 
thehabhater said:
View attachment 16444
Click to expand...
This assumes that Nylander would have scored later and that Florida would have played the rest of the third the same way.

And where was all this outrage when Point had a good goal waved off in the first round? One could argue that the Leafs only made it to the second round because Tampa got screwed.

Go back to whining about the Gretzky high stick. You lost for the same reason you lose every year: because your team is a fraud. It is designed only to win largely meaningless regular season games. It has never had what it takes to win when it matters which is why it doesn't win when it matters. If the Reilly goal had stood the Leafs would just have found another way to fail because that's who they are. That's who they've been for 7 years.

Blow. It. Up.
 
Montana said:
If they can Dubas, I may be done.
Click to expand...

legit question....why?

I'm trying to take a level approach to his tenure, but I see the talk & promise vs the execution having a wide gulf between them. The only thing I can come up with on the "keep him" side is that a replacement might be worse. Devil you know and all of that. But nothing he's actually done in the job suggests that he's head and shoulders above top replacements out there. Is Dubas actually better than Tulsky?
 
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