The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread
- Thread starter LeafGm
- Start date
Preston
MBow30 alt account
He's a #1 center and a damn good one. I'm challenging "one of the best players in the league" because I wouldn't even call him "one of the best centers in the league." But my definition of "one of the best" is simply different than yours so we may not even disagree here!
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Yup.
And none of them would be able to love him for ditching the team that drafted him to go back home. We have that too and still people can't stop complaining.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Top 30 overall, top 15 at position, top 5%.
Nobody is saying he's in the same ballpark as McDavid, but he's still one of the best players. You don't score 36 at his age and hit 80 points yet again and not get credit objectively as being one of the best.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Half of his points came from playing the wing on our PP1 unit last season.
He was 44th among centres in ES points last season.
Behind guys who no one considers to be "one of the best" anything in the league. Horvat, Gourde, Strome, Krejci, Beniers, Couture, Cozens, Larkin, Zegras, Zacha, Kyrou, Brock Nelson...all out produced John Tavares at even strength and most of them did it without a William Nylanders calibre linemate.
He was 44th among centres in ES points last season.
Behind guys who no one considers to be "one of the best" anything in the league. Horvat, Gourde, Strome, Krejci, Beniers, Couture, Cozens, Larkin, Zegras, Zacha, Kyrou, Brock Nelson...all out produced John Tavares at even strength and most of them did it without a William Nylanders calibre linemate.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Cool, but not everyone thinks it makes sense to penalize someone for being a PP assassin.
They count those points for McDavid, Kucherov and every other player, as far as I'm aware.
It's good to be really good on the PP. And not every warm body you throw out there will pick up points like he does.
They count those points for McDavid, Kucherov and every other player, as far as I'm aware.
It's good to be really good on the PP. And not every warm body you throw out there will pick up points like he does.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
But he's the 4th best forward, and 5th best player on that unit.
Most of the game is played at ES. If you're not elite at ES, you're not "one of the best players in the league".
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Tavares has never actually been THAT good on the PP. Part of what made him so attractive for me was his excellent 5 on 5 play. Have to wonder how his numbers would look if he wasn't surrounded by arguably the most talented PP in the NHL. Because those 5 on 5 numbers sure have fallen since his first year with the Leafs (which was genuinely elite as fuck and he earned the status of "one of the best centers in the league" that year).
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Tavares is basically an expensive Jason Allison with more goals and less assists.
Change my mind.
Change my mind.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Teams at the bottom of the league maybe.
Not many good teams. Even just in our division, is he actually better than Stutzle or Larkin? If not, the only team he's 1C on in our division is Boston (with Zacha having out pointed him in ES last season, but I digress).
Over in the metro? Yeah, maybe half the clubs (Washington, Isles, Philly because Couturier died I guess)
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
We're lucky to have several great players, each of whom benefit from it, not just him.
I've seen countless players be useless on the PP over the years, so it's a plus for me to be really productive on it. "Oh but he's really good on the PP so it doesn't count." Nah.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I'll send you a $10 Tim Hortons gift certificate.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Excellent question.
I'm never sure why we require one complete fucking headscratcher of a roster decision like it's by law or some shit.
LeafGm
Well-known member
Well, this does undersell Tavares a bit.
He gets significantly more goals than Allison and only slightly fewer assists.
And though he’s not fleet of foot, he’s doesn’t look like he’s skating in mud to nearly the same degree Allison did.
Though of course, where the comparison isn’t great for JT is that Allison did cost approximately 1/10th of what Tavares does in salary.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Who cares though? He's still one of the best players in the league. It doesn't matter how you slice it up and try to discount this versus that, because at the end of the day, he still got himself into the top 30 in goals and points in year 5 of 7 at age 33. That's awesome, you should be thrilled.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
How many players are included in your list of "one of the best players in the league?" 50? 100? Mine is a heck of a lot shorter. Usually for me it means that they are ONE of the BEST players in the league and not the 54th or 87th best player in the league.
MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
Mind not changed.
leafman101
Well-known member
Wait, Tavares is an elite weapon on the PP. 4th in PP goals, and 2nd in ix PP goals since he came into the league. His skill set is scoring goals around the net and he's been one of the best in the league at that his entire career.
Behind Matthews/Ovie/Stamkos, he's arguably the greatest goal scorer of this era.
His limitations are defensively 5v5.
He's just overpaid. Still a hell of a player.
Behind Matthews/Ovie/Stamkos, he's arguably the greatest goal scorer of this era.
His limitations are defensively 5v5.
He's just overpaid. Still a hell of a player.