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The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread

Over the last 2yrs, Tavares ranks 29th amongst actual centers in 5v5 P/60, but 2nd in ixg/60 (to matthews). He's also managed to keep even in the nerdies, at a +0.1relxg%.
 
Preston said:
I didn't say it wasn't a key role? In fact I even commented about how much he has helped the PP and made it so much better. You're hung up on the word complementary I think. I can't think of a better word to use unfortunately because it really does describe his role perfectly as his success is highly dependent on those surrounding him, as in he complements the talent around him perfectly. And he has obviously found his niche there picking up scraps and working in tight. I'm just saying on the Island he was expected to drive the PP and played a completely different role in many years (and in those years the teams PP was typically awful). When the Islanders had a guy that can truly drive a PP they did much better because JT was able to fall back into this niche role. But overall their PP was ranked 19th in his entire stint there. He has never been a Giroux on the PP. He has his role and had always been a rock solid, excellent 5 on 5 player.

TLDR: He has been very good in this role on the PP throughout his career (I won't call it complementary this time). And also playing with super elite players that can be more puck dominant on the PP has been a huge help as this is something he did not often have on the Island.
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Ugh this fight pains me.
But gotta go with leafman here bc he’s my boy. Fuck you presto you’re wrong on this one.
 
mbow30 said:
Ugh this fight pains me.
But gotta go with leafman here bc he’s my boy. Fuck you presto you’re wrong on this one.
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It's not a fight! I'm not even debating anything but the use of a particular word that may have been triggering. It's a common sense discussion that we all already knew so it's a waste of time.
 
zeke said:
the comparison with guys like Stutzle and Larkin is interesting, because I don't know that they are any better defensively

there's lots of offense-only Cs in the league.
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Would JT be much better offensively at ES if he cheated to create offence though? He doesn't have that kind of speed to be dangerous leaving the zone. At this point he's only okay defensively, so I don't know if hiding him behind "but he plays defence" holds water anymore. He's not being asked to do the defensive heavy lifting anymore (97th among "centres" in defensive zone starts/60) and his defensive numbers are meh (135th among "centres" in xGA, underwater in ES GF60/GA60).
 
LeafGm said:
Well, this does undersell Tavares a bit.

He gets significantly more goals than Allison and only slightly fewer assists.

And though he’s not fleet of foot, he’s doesn’t look like he’s skating in mud to nearly the same degree Allison did.

Though of course, where the comparison isn’t great for JT is that Allison did cost approximately 1/10th of what Tavares does in salary.
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Pretty sure I recall Harry Neale saying on a Jason Allison breakaway replay one time... "He could have got a penalty for delay of game."

Or something to that effect.
 
zeke said:
zeke guesses:

Knies - Tavares - Lafferty
Gregor - Domi - Robertson
Cowan - Minten - Hirvonen
Clifford - Holmberg - Ellis/Steeves

McCabe - Klingberg
Lagesson - Liljegren
Lajoie/Petro - Timmins
​
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Swap Minten and Holmberg, I suspect
 
zeke said:
Over the last 2yrs, Tavares ranks 29th amongst actual centers in 5v5 P/60, but 2nd in ixg/60 (to matthews). He's also managed to keep even in the nerdies, at a +0.1relxg%.
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And seeing that..

There are 32 teams and at least one of the 28 centres rated higher than him is a team mate...
I don't get the anti Tavares fuss. Statistically, he has been consistent for his entire career,
 
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thehabhater said:
I don't get the anti Tavares fuss.
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7th highest paid player in the league mate. Not centre, player.

We're in a capped league that has been hard cap fucked for a few years, cap spend efficiency is a massive competitive advantage and we just haven't benefitted from having an "11 million dollar" player on our roster in that spot. He's been fine, he's been John Tavares, but he's been an ~8 million dollar player making 11 million dollars and even viewed through the lens of an 8 million dollar player has been disappointing in the playoffs.

Before signing him I questioned whether the extra cost was going to be worth the difference between he and Kadri. In retrospect the answer is very clearly no. Which doesn't make him a bad player, clearly he's not. He's just not worth his contract and hasn't been what this team needed at the time to push it to the next level from either a performance or leadership standpoint. The proof at this point is in the track record. We didn't sign John Tavares to be our 5th best player and score at 58 point pace in the playoffs. Anyone who is pro Tavares needs to ask themselves if we could view the 5 years of results prior to the signing, would we do it again? You would be fucking nuts to think the last 5 years have been successful enough to repeat this path.
 
any chance we can stop shitting on our players all the time? we get it, he's overpaid and a little slow. Still had a very good season and is a key part of a Stanley Cup contending team.
 
MindzEye said:
7th highest paid player in the league mate. Not centre, player.

We're in a capped league that has been hard cap fucked for a few years, cap spend efficiency is a massive competitive advantage and we just haven't benefitted from having an "11 million dollar" player on our roster in that spot. He's been fine, he's been John Tavares, but he's been an ~8 million dollar player making 11 million dollars and even viewed through the lens of an 8 million dollar player has been disappointing in the playoffs.

Before signing him I questioned whether the extra cost was going to be worth the difference between he and Kadri. In retrospect the answer is very clearly no. Which doesn't make him a bad player, clearly he's not. He's just not worth his contract and hasn't been what this team needed at the time to push it to the next level from either a performance or leadership standpoint. The proof at this point is in the track record. We didn't sign John Tavares to be our 5th best player and score at 58 point pace in the playoffs. Anyone who is pro Tavares needs to ask themselves if we could view the 5 years of results prior to the signing, would we do it again? You would be fucking nuts to think the last 5 years have been successful enough to repeat this path.
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If he had signed with San Jose, he would have been the highest or second highest paid player in the league.

The Leafs wanted him, and the cost was 11 million.
 
thehabhater said:
If he had signed with San Jose, he would have been the highest or second highest paid player in the league.

The Leafs wanted him, and the cost was 11 million.
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But then....pass on him and do other stuff with the money? That would have been an entirely valid decision.
 
MindzEye said:
No.

Someone asked as question and I answered it. It was more or less aimed directly at me and I took the time to explain my thinking to him.
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