MyNameIsJonas
Well-known member
You are such a sensible beast of a man.
The Mother-fucking goddamn Off-season Thread
- Thread starter LeafGm
- Start date
Preston
MBow30 alt account
Yup he's an absolutely perfect fit in a complementary role on the PP and a huge asset for the Leafs there. He struggled to drive a PP in NY (19th ranked PP in the NHL in his stint there; he's no Giroux, for example) but that wasn't the role he excels at. It's no coincidence his PP production and PP nerdies have gone to the moon since he landed in Toronto.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
I mean, I’m not ranking. I’m just saying, putting everything else to the side, can you flirt with 40 goals and not be one of the best players?
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
Anyone who hasn't been in conversation for a major award or All NHL for a few seasons isn't "one of the best players in the league" imo.
Different standards I guess.
Fwiw, Tavares last received any votes for MVP in 18/19 (finished 17th in voting) and I think that's probably a pretty accurate depiction of where he was at the time compared to the rest of the league. ~17th best player in the league that season is about right. 13th in 15/16 is again about right. 3rd the year before is again, about right. He was generally somewhere between 10th-20th in MVP voting for most of his NYI years with 3rd overall being the high water mark and I think that's fair.
leafman101
Well-known member
I like that "guy who scores all the goals" is a complementary role on the PP.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
That's not how define it. For me it literally means one of the best, as in the best players in the NHL. Like you put a handful of guys in that group. McDavid, Matthews, Drai, Marner, Marchand, etc. Not some dude that's maybe the 43rd best player in the league.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
I mean he's obviously not the driver. He barely even touches the puck on the PP. I call that complementary and I think he does a better job in that role than a Marner would, for example. But Marner is the driver because he is puck dominant (think Giroux, one of the best PP players in this generation), Tavares is the complementary guy. I get that you are taking that to be a negative but it really doesn't have to be a negative thing.
thehabhater
Some call me Tim
His next contract will be for remarkably less than his current one. They will need the cap room for some guy in Edmonton.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
It’s not a discussion about who is THE best. But he is one of the best. Caps make all the difference here, as there is a difference.
MindzEye
Wayward Ditch Pig
leafman101
Well-known member
QB isn't the only key role on a PP.
I mean Ovie also isn't the puck dominant driver on the PP.
I mean Ovie also isn't the puck dominant driver on the PP.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
That guy sucks. Have you seen his PP production??
Preston
MBow30 alt account
I didn't say it wasn't a key role? In fact I even commented about how much he has helped the PP and made it so much better. You're hung up on the word complementary I think. I can't think of a better word to use unfortunately because it really does describe his role perfectly as his success is highly dependent on those surrounding him, as in he complements the talent around him perfectly. And he has obviously found his niche there picking up scraps and working in tight. I'm just saying on the Island he was expected to drive the PP and played a completely different role in many years (and in those years the teams PP was typically awful). When the Islanders had a guy that can truly drive a PP they did much better because JT was able to fall back into this niche role. But overall their PP was ranked 19th in his entire stint there. He has never been a Giroux on the PP. He has his role and had always been a rock solid, excellent 5 on 5 player.
TLDR: He has been very good in this role on the PP throughout his career (I won't call it complementary this time). And also playing with super elite players that can be more puck dominant on the PP has been a huge help as this is something he did not often have on the Island.
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Preston
MBow30 alt account
I'm getting dizzy now
BG
Well-known member
I'd say any player that would stand to be the best player at any position on one of 32 teams (remembering that as the league has expanded, it's become harder to hoard players) would be considered "one of the best". Tavares clearly qualifies as a goal-scorer and face-off wiz.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
You can be one of the best players in the league without being in the MVP discussion.
zeke
Well-known member
the comparison with guys like Stutzle and Larkin is interesting, because I don't know that they are any better defensively
there's lots of offense-only Cs in the league.
Preston
MBow30 alt account
As I said, it's a difference in how we define things. I wouldn't call ~50 players in the NHL "one of the best." You obviously would. Case closed. I would only debate you if you felt he met my definition of one of the best, but you do not so I will accept it.
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Being a really good defensive forward is a rarity in the league, I’d imagine. How many excellent high scoring guys are also really good at the other end of the ice?
LeafOfFaith
Well-known member
Yeah, we’re not having the same discussion, which I think has been fairly obvious. All I’m saying to you is, I don’t think you can be a consistent 30-40 goal C and not be considered one of the best players in the league. I’m not asking whether he’s as good as McDavid, Matty, etc.