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No Excuses No Limits! The mother fucking goddamn season thread

Wayward DP said:
you seem unwilling to accept that other people can have a different opinion about the same set of facts as you. this is the case here. you mischaracterize the pro-Kessel argument.

again, not trying to get into it, but happy to if we need to. and if you need everyone to publicly acknowledge that "LOF was right" then we're going to be at this for another few days or months, again.

my view at the time was that it was a good trade for the Leafs from an asset management perspective. my view hasn't changed given the passage of time.
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Alright, congrats. Self-imposed exile is now in effect because I can’t handle the trolling and idiocy amped up to these levels. See you guys when I can tolerate the nonsense again.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
Alright, congrats. Self-imposed exile is now in effect because I can’t handle the trolling and idiocy amped up to these levels. See you guys when I can tolerate the nonsense again.
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again, you're literally calling me a troll because I disagree with you about a hockey trade. I'll definitely admit to baiting you at times but this is not one of them!

see you when you are feeling better.
 
LeafOfFaith said:
He was a complementary piece. They had two 1Cs and other star players.
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The 3rd best player on a back to back Stanley Cup winning team is not a complimentary piece by any reasonable definition. This would be like claiming William fucking Nylander to be a complimentary piece on this Leafs team, which for obvious reasons would get you laughed out of any conversation.

LeafOfFaith said:
Meanwhile, we were trying to compete with the likes of Grabovski and Blake, and one star in Kessel. I kept saying, no 1C and no chance of getting one without those picks = no cup. And therefore a stupid fucking trade to make at the time.
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Poor way of looking at team building imo. When you have the opportunity to add a player widely considered to be future stud winger for 2 1sts you don't go all positional bias on it. There's all sorts of ways to improve your club to be competitive and eventually build a winner. Shit, if that same summer saw us sign Tomas Vokoun instead of Toskalol like a bunch of us wanted at the time the whole world looks different with elite goaltending. We spent cap on Komisarek, Tim fucking Connolly and a bunch of other junk over that period. We had everything we need to build a good team immediately and then worry about acquiring positional needs later. This isn't paint by numbers, you can't just sit around waiting for an elite #1C or elite #1D to come available and never spend assets on anything else until those spots are filled.
 
MindzEye said:
The 3rd best player on a back to back Stanley Cup winning team is not a complimentary piece by any reasonable definition. This would be like claiming William fucking Nylander to be a complimentary piece on this Leafs team, which for obvious reasons would get you laughed out of any conversation.



Poor way of looking at team building imo. When you have the opportunity to add a player widely considered to be future stud winger for 2 1sts you don't go all positional bias on it. There's all sorts of ways to improve your club to be competitive and eventually build a winner. Shit, if that same summer saw us sign Tomas Vokoun instead of Toskalol like a bunch of us wanted at the time the whole world looks different with elite goaltending. We spent cap on Komisarek, Tim fucking Connolly and a bunch of other junk over that period. We had everything we need to build a good team immediately and then worry about acquiring positional needs later. This isn't paint by numbers, you can't just sit around waiting for an elite #1C or elite #1D to come available and never spend assets on anything else until those spots are filled.
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Are you saying Nylander is the third best player on the current leafs roster right now? ;)

That’s a fun discussion too. If equal contracts, would you take marner or Nylander today to build your team with matthews. Could MR sneak into this discussion too as the second player you take if you put him on an equiv defenseman contract?

Then do the same discussion with current contract status haha
 
soco22 said:
Are you saying Nylander is the third best player on the current leafs roster right now? ;)

That’s a fun discussion too. If equal contracts, would you take marner or Nylander today to build your team with matthews. Could MR sneak into this discussion too as the second player you take if you put him on an equiv defenseman contract?

Then do the same discussion with current contract status haha
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Yeah, despite Mitch's early season struggles I would still put him ahead of Willy. A bit better rounded and has been a pretty consistent point machine for years now. Willy looks big dick studly over the last ~100 games and might have nudged up to Mitchy level or damn close, but he has been more mercurial over the years and isn't as good on the defensive side of the puck.

Mo & JT are the conversation for 4-5 imo. Mo is overall probably a top 15-20 defenceman in the league with some awesome aspects and some warts. JT has turned into a PP machine (top 10 the last few years in P/60 on the PP) but is probably isn't in the top 30 best centres in the league at 5v5 anymore. Mo being a playoff animal and JT being a disappointing playoff performer has to fit in their somewhere as well, also Mo being 3.5 million cheaper.
 
MindzEye said:
Yeah, despite Mitch's early season struggles I would still put him ahead of Willy. A bit better rounded and has been a pretty consistent point machine for years now. Willy looks big dick studly over the last ~100 games and might have nudged up to Mitchy level or damn close, but he has been more mercurial over the years and isn't as good on the defensive side of the puck.

Mo & JT are the conversation for 4-5 imo. Mo is overall probably a top 15-20 defenceman in the league with some awesome aspects and some warts. JT has turned into a PP machine (top 10 the last few years in P/60 on the PP) but is probably isn't in the top 30 best centres in the league at 5v5 anymore. Mo being a playoff animal and JT being a disappointing playoff performer has to fit in their somewhere as well, also Mo being 3.5 million cheaper.
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Now put nylanders deal v marners deal into play. Is the difference with the extra $3M? I think Nylander has caught up defensively (agreed not there yet), but playoff Nylander >> Marner. So it’s tough.
 
3 best players on the Leafs are

Auston
Matthews
Papi


Cock

Marner

Everyone else
 
The playoffs experience seems to have reminded Rielly that his skating can make him a dominant player. It's small sample still but he's picked up right where he left off in the playoffs as a legit dominant #1. Would be amazing if this was a permanent development.

Tavares is miles better than he's looked in years...and i'd say he probably looks better so far this year than he did even in his first year with us. I doubt it sticks but this level Tavares wouldnt have everyone hating his contract.
 
zeke said:
The playoffs experience seems to have reminded Rielly that his skating can make him a dominant player. It's small sample still but he's picked up right where he left off in the playoffs as a legit dominant #1. Would be amazing if this was a permanent development.

Tavares is miles better than he's looked in years...and i'd say he probably looks better so far this year than he did even in his first year with us. I doubt it sticks but this level Tavares wouldnt have everyone hating his contract.
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And there's only one person in the world that believed he was a great player. It's a shame that he has now left us. He could be rubbing it in.
 
Preston said:
And there's only one person in the world that believed he was a great player. It's a shame that he has now left us. He could be rubbing it in.
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But would be unable to admit that the version of tavares we saw the last few years was much less effective than this one we've seen for the last 8 games.
 
soco22 said:
Now put nylanders deal v marners deal into play. Is the difference with the extra $3M? I think Nylander has caught up defensively (agreed not there yet), but playoff Nylander >> Marner. So it’s tough.
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I mean, that's tough. This Willy at 7M is worth more than Mitch at 10.9, absolutely. But the 1st & 3rd year of his deal? Nah.

Gotta remember though that Mitchy has done this for point pace the last 5 seasons:

18/19: 94
19/20: 93
20/21: 100
21/22: 110
22/23: 99

That's fucking impressive.

The only other guys to pace 90+ for the last 5 years are Panarin, Sid, Connor, Leon, Nate, & *Kucherov.
 
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